I can do a solo session. 7.3ms delay. All good. Using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen.
My friend can do a solo session. 7.4ms delay. All good. We are “Friends”. He is using a USB mic.
When we try to join a session together, all we see is the other greyed out with “No audio?”.
And we get the “Network Send Error.” Over and over.
And we both tried to join an open session and get the same results for the other “Live Tracks” — greyed out. This points to it being our setup.
And i now after turning back on "Show Network Alerts" on Manage->Network menu, i get the "Check your network! Your network changed packet port numbers. This may block...".
Long story:
Both macOS Mojave 10.14.6.
Both Jamkazam version Build 1.80 - “1.0.3702”
Both have a Network “Location” that is set to use a static IP, with WiFi removed from the location.
Both have setup port forwarding of external UDP ports 12000-12010 to same range internal sending to our respective static IPs.
Both have IPv6 turned off in Jamkazam.
Both have JK’s Preferences set ON to always use the same set of UDP ports, and the start is set to 12000.
Both have Audio Booster set as follows: Auto Throttle Bitrate unchecked, Media Stream unchecked, Chat channel unchecked, Maximum Outgoing Music Bitrate set to 128Kbit/s, Audio FrameSize set to 1ms Experimental, Auto Throttle Network Packet Rate unchecked, Max Network Packet Rate 100Pkt/s. This got me down to 7.3ms delay from 10.3ms.
Then I realized i had macOS Firewall turned on and so went and set Security & Privacy->Firewall is OFF. Still no changes, except when i went to Search for Open Sessions, when i hovered over one of the people in an open session, it showed my delay as 10ms to that one person — rest all say unknown. Still no love trying to join an open session.
I have a Verizon FiOS business internet 90Mbps/90Mbps. I didn’t have my friend test his network speed. Friend has Comcast 131Mbps down/6.5Mbps up. Should be no issues with those speeds.
I have Apple Airport Extreme router with a static IP from Verizon as i run some services. If i go to [/url][url=https://whatismyip.com]whatismyip.com i see the same IP as what i have set my router’s to. This is in regard to some post about having a private IP versus a public IP as some crazy internet providers put you behind some NAT. Friend has DHCP IP for his router but same as what shows up at whatismyip.com.
In tweaking settings over and over, i would quit and restart Jamkazam many times. At one point, Jamkazam app crashed. I have filed a bug report.
Oh yeah, in one test with my friend, we heard each other for like 1 second... then it stopped. Retried that setting a few times. No luck.
What am i missing? Or what have i done wrong? Or what should i try?
Any clues would be most appreciated. I've attached some screen shots in cast that helps.
Finally, what happens when you connect straight from the computer to the Modem, unless it's an all in one box. Bypassing the router completely - as a test.
What kind of JamKazam session are you running? ... I cant see from your screenshots.
I was having problems with Quick Sessions and ‘Sessions with Friends’ ..... I found that I could only get everything working with a ‘scheduled session’.
(07-07-2020, 09:21 PM)backinterrapin Wrote: Dear JamKazam et al,
Still trying to jam with someone.
Short story:
I can do a solo session. 7.3ms delay. All good. Using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen.
My friend can do a solo session. 7.4ms delay. All good. We are “Friends”. He is using a USB mic.
When we try to join a session together, all we see is the other greyed out with “No audio?”.
And we get the “Network Send Error.” Over and over.
And we both tried to join an open session and get the same results for the other “Live Tracks” — greyed out. This points to it being our setup.
And i now after turning back on "Show Network Alerts" on Manage->Network menu, i get the "Check your network! Your network changed packet port numbers. This may block...".
Long story:
Both macOS Mojave 10.14.6.
Both Jamkazam version Build 1.80 - “1.0.3702”
Both have a Network “Location” that is set to use a static IP, with WiFi removed from the location.
Both have setup port forwarding of external UDP ports 12000-12010 to same range internal sending to our respective static IPs.
Both have IPv6 turned off in Jamkazam.
Both have JK’s Preferences set ON to always use the same set of UDP ports, and the start is set to 12000.
Both have Audio Booster set as follows: Auto Throttle Bitrate unchecked, Media Stream unchecked, Chat channel unchecked, Maximum Outgoing Music Bitrate set to 128Kbit/s, Audio FrameSize set to 1ms Experimental, Auto Throttle Network Packet Rate unchecked, Max Network Packet Rate 100Pkt/s. This got me down to 7.3ms delay from 10.3ms.
Then I realized i had macOS Firewall turned on and so went and set Security & Privacy->Firewall is OFF. Still no changes, except when i went to Search for Open Sessions, when i hovered over one of the people in an open session, it showed my delay as 10ms to that one person — rest all say unknown. Still no love trying to join an open session.
I have a Verizon FiOS business internet 90Mbps/90Mbps. I didn’t have my friend test his network speed. Friend has Comcast 131Mbps down/6.5Mbps up. Should be no issues with those speeds.
I have Apple Airport Extreme router with a static IP from Verizon as i run some services. If i go to [/url][url=https://whatismyip.com]whatismyip.com i see the same IP as what i have set my router’s to. This is in regard to some post about having a private IP versus a public IP as some crazy internet providers put you behind some NAT. Friend has DHCP IP for his router but same as what shows up at whatismyip.com.
In tweaking settings over and over, i would quit and restart Jamkazam many times. At one point, Jamkazam app crashed. I have filed a bug report.
Oh yeah, in one test with my friend, we heard each other for like 1 second... then it stopped. Retried that setting a few times. No luck.
What am i missing? Or what have i done wrong? Or what should i try?
Any clues would be most appreciated. I've attached some screen shots in cast that helps.
Peace,
Dan
Hi Dan, I have a similar situation to what you described. I have an ASUS pc but the same Scarlett2i2 audio interface. I get my latency to green. I do that by adjusting the Streaming Settings in the Scarlett Device Settings(The small window that pops up when the device is engaged). I also have Ableton Live 10 software that seems to make changing the value in the Device settings "stick" better.
However when trying to join an open session I am shown that my latency is mostly "unacceptable" or "unknown". Once in while I find a "fair" or "poor", but those are rare. I am wondering if I have to do something with my firewall. I will try to do something with Windows Defender and my copy of Malwarebytes. My JK also crashes quite a lot--however-- I persist and reload it! Thank you for all this information! LisaJo
07-17-2020, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2020, 05:03 PM by Hans Peter Augustesen.)
"... my latency is mostly "unacceptable" or "unknown"!?
It is not just your latency. It is the total latency to another person. Or the other persons total latency to you.
"unacceptable" means that the total latency to another person is over 50 milliseconds.
"unknown" means that jamKazam not have figured out the total latency (yet).
"Poor" means the total latency is between 35 and 50 milliseconds.
While "fair" means between 20 and 35 ms.
Total latency 20 and below is called "GOOD".
Be aware that the geographical distance to another person is very important in terms of total latency to other persons.
I also wondered about distance - there have been several posts recently where people mentioned that open sessions dont always say where they are based. ... so you dont know if you are trying to link Idaho with Singapore - for example. ... I am guessing that your friend is not that far away .... but you dont mention that.
I have seen posts talking of ‘great sessions’ between Canada (possibly Toronto - so only just) .... New York & Seattle .... or Germany - Holland - UK .... but those places all have good bandwidth and high spec equipment.
Try local first and spread out from there
I get 11.5ms latency out of my Scarlett 2i2 ... and that becomes about 30 ms once connected to someone else 50 miles away ... which still works well
07-21-2020, 05:09 PM (This post was last modified: 07-21-2020, 05:47 PM by backinterrapin.)
(07-08-2020, 02:43 AM)GDJ Wrote: What happens when you uncheck the port forwarding preferences in JK, and remove them from the router. Does it work then?
If not, in addition to turning off the firewall are you using an IP sniffer such as LittleSnitch that is blocking the app?
Finally, what happens when you connect straight from the computer to the Modem, unless it's an all in one box. Bypassing the router completely - as a test.
Hi GDJ!
Sorry for delay in responding... i spent almost every minute since i started this thread working on getting ready to produce my first live music live stream event broadcast via crowdcast.io -- a fundraiser for the non-profit i'm on the BoD of: walthamlandtrust.org. Used Zoom to get the feed from the musicians Paul Rishell and Annie Raines to my computer, as well as some Directors of the org for talking heads, etc, produced through OBS (awesome open source video production studio software) and streamed via RMTP to Crowdcast.io. All went off without a hitch.
Now back to this! I need to jam!
Thanks for the ideas. Will try removing the port forwarding in JK and test. Then if still not working, will remove the port forwarded ports in router.
I had LittleSnitch installed! So good question. But have already uninstalled, including making sure that all the all items in /Library/LaunchAgents and /Library/LaunchDaemons pertaining to LittleSnitch were gone, and restarted.
Yes, already have JK all set up in Privacy for Microphone. Good check. Didn't have that in my description.
And lastly, hooking up direct to internet. That would certainly test if my router is mucking things up. I have a 5-IP static address space so can test that without messing with the rest of the LAN users. I would hate to have to swap back and forth to use JK. But at least it would locate the issue for me. What is curious is the my bandmate is using another brand router then me. So that is two routers that would be two router brands causing issues.
Ok, i have a couple things to try! Thanks.
I'll respond with results after i test.
Peace,
Dan
(07-08-2020, 03:26 PM)Chris Frost Wrote: What kind of JamKazam session are you running? ... I cant see from your screenshots.
I was having problems with Quick Sessions and ‘Sessions with Friends’ ..... I found that I could only get everything working with a ‘scheduled session’.
Hi Chris!
Cool, another thing to test. Thanks! Will report back after i test it.
I was trying with my "friend" who is in my band and was testing with me. Didn't work
I was using Find a session->Open Jams and picking one that looked cool and inviting. Still greyed out and "No Audio".
Peace,
Dan
(07-17-2020, 03:58 PM)LisaJo Borchers Wrote:
(07-07-2020, 09:21 PM)backinterrapin Wrote: Dear JamKazam et al,
Still trying to jam with someone.
Short story:
I can do a solo session. 7.3ms delay. All good. Using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen.
My friend can do a solo session. 7.4ms delay. All good. We are “Friends”. He is using a USB mic.
When we try to join a session together, all we see is the other greyed out with “No audio?”.
And we get the “Network Send Error.” Over and over.
And we both tried to join an open session and get the same results for the other “Live Tracks” — greyed out. This points to it being our setup.
And i now after turning back on "Show Network Alerts" on Manage->Network menu, i get the "Check your network! Your network changed packet port numbers. This may block...".
Long story:
Both macOS Mojave 10.14.6.
Both Jamkazam version Build 1.80 - “1.0.3702”
Both have a Network “Location” that is set to use a static IP, with WiFi removed from the location.
Both have setup port forwarding of external UDP ports 12000-12010 to same range internal sending to our respective static IPs.
Both have IPv6 turned off in Jamkazam.
Both have JK’s Preferences set ON to always use the same set of UDP ports, and the start is set to 12000.
Both have Audio Booster set as follows: Auto Throttle Bitrate unchecked, Media Stream unchecked, Chat channel unchecked, Maximum Outgoing Music Bitrate set to 128Kbit/s, Audio FrameSize set to 1ms Experimental, Auto Throttle Network Packet Rate unchecked, Max Network Packet Rate 100Pkt/s. This got me down to 7.3ms delay from 10.3ms.
Then I realized i had macOS Firewall turned on and so went and set Security & Privacy->Firewall is OFF. Still no changes, except when i went to Search for Open Sessions, when i hovered over one of the people in an open session, it showed my delay as 10ms to that one person — rest all say unknown. Still no love trying to join an open session.
I have a Verizon FiOS business internet 90Mbps/90Mbps. I didn’t have my friend test his network speed. Friend has Comcast 131Mbps down/6.5Mbps up. Should be no issues with those speeds.
I have Apple Airport Extreme router with a static IP from Verizon as i run some services. If i go to [/url][url=https://whatismyip.com]whatismyip.com i see the same IP as what i have set my router’s to. This is in regard to some post about having a private IP versus a public IP as some crazy internet providers put you behind some NAT. Friend has DHCP IP for his router but same as what shows up at whatismyip.com.
In tweaking settings over and over, i would quit and restart Jamkazam many times. At one point, Jamkazam app crashed. I have filed a bug report.
Oh yeah, in one test with my friend, we heard each other for like 1 second... then it stopped. Retried that setting a few times. No luck.
What am i missing? Or what have i done wrong? Or what should i try?
Any clues would be most appreciated. I've attached some screen shots in cast that helps.
Peace,
Dan
Hi Dan, I have a similar situation to what you described. I have an ASUS pc but the same Scarlett2i2 audio interface. I get my latency to green. I do that by adjusting the Streaming Settings in the Scarlett Device Settings(The small window that pops up when the device is engaged). I also have Ableton Live 10 software that seems to make changing the value in the Device settings "stick" better.
However when trying to join an open session I am shown that my latency is mostly "unacceptable" or "unknown". Once in while I find a "fair" or "poor", but those are rare. I am wondering if I have to do something with my firewall. I will try to do something with Windows Defender and my copy of Malwarebytes. My JK also crashes quite a lot--however-- I persist and reload it! Thank you for all this information! LisaJo
Hi LisaJo!
Once i have it working, i will report back with what i had to do. Hope that will help. I'm on Mac not Windows. I've turned off the Mac builtin firewall for testing. So turning off Windows Defender to test makes sense. Luckily i have only had one crash with JK so far.
Good luck!
Peace,
Dan
(07-17-2020, 04:13 PM)Hans Peter Augustesen Wrote: "... my latency is mostly "unacceptable" or "unknown"!?
It is not just your latency. It is the total latency to another person. Or the other persons total latency to you.
"unacceptable" means that the total latency to another person is over 50 milliseconds.
"unknown" means that jamKazam not have figured out the total latency (yet).
"Poor" means the total latency is between 35 and 50 milliseconds.
While "fair" means between 20 and 35 ms.
Total latency 20 and below is called "GOOD".
Be aware that the geographical distance to another person is very important in terms of total latency to other persons.
Thanks Hans!
I was trying from Boston MA are to the Cape in MA, so not very far.
And thanks for the "Unknown" means hasn't figured out yet. That is curious. As i got one or two times in the open sessions one or two people to show the latency. But almost never.
(07-07-2020, 09:21 PM)backinterrapin Wrote: Dear JamKazam et al,
Still trying to jam with someone.
Short story:
I can do a solo session. 7.3ms delay. All good. Using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen.
My friend can do a solo session. 7.4ms delay. All good. We are “Friends”. He is using a USB mic.
When we try to join a session together, all we see is the other greyed out with “No audio?”.
And we get the “Network Send Error.” Over and over.
And we both tried to join an open session and get the same results for the other “Live Tracks” — greyed out. This points to it being our setup.
And i now after turning back on "Show Network Alerts" on Manage->Network menu, i get the "Check your network! Your network changed packet port numbers. This may block...".
Long story:
Both macOS Mojave 10.14.6.
Both Jamkazam version Build 1.80 - “1.0.3702”
Both have a Network “Location” that is set to use a static IP, with WiFi removed from the location.
Both have setup port forwarding of external UDP ports 12000-12010 to same range internal sending to our respective static IPs.
Both have IPv6 turned off in Jamkazam.
Both have JK’s Preferences set ON to always use the same set of UDP ports, and the start is set to 12000.
Both have Audio Booster set as follows: Auto Throttle Bitrate unchecked, Media Stream unchecked, Chat channel unchecked, Maximum Outgoing Music Bitrate set to 128Kbit/s, Audio FrameSize set to 1ms Experimental, Auto Throttle Network Packet Rate unchecked, Max Network Packet Rate 100Pkt/s. This got me down to 7.3ms delay from 10.3ms.
Then I realized i had macOS Firewall turned on and so went and set Security & Privacy->Firewall is OFF. Still no changes, except when i went to Search for Open Sessions, when i hovered over one of the people in an open session, it showed my delay as 10ms to that one person — rest all say unknown. Still no love trying to join an open session.
I have a Verizon FiOS business internet 90Mbps/90Mbps. I didn’t have my friend test his network speed. Friend has Comcast 131Mbps down/6.5Mbps up. Should be no issues with those speeds.
I have Apple Airport Extreme router with a static IP from Verizon as i run some services. If i go to [/url][url=https://whatismyip.com]whatismyip.com i see the same IP as what i have set my router’s to. This is in regard to some post about having a private IP versus a public IP as some crazy internet providers put you behind some NAT. Friend has DHCP IP for his router but same as what shows up at whatismyip.com.
In tweaking settings over and over, i would quit and restart Jamkazam many times. At one point, Jamkazam app crashed. I have filed a bug report.
Oh yeah, in one test with my friend, we heard each other for like 1 second... then it stopped. Retried that setting a few times. No luck.
What am i missing? Or what have i done wrong? Or what should i try?
Any clues would be most appreciated. I've attached some screen shots in cast that helps.
Peace,
Dan
Hi Everyone!
I just found out that a friend's spouse has been using a Mac for a long time with JK. I just tried a session with him and it sort of worked. He suggested TWO changes:
Maximum Outgoing Music Bitrate set to 320Kbit/s
Audio FrameSize set to 2.5ms
I changed just the Max Bitrate to 320 and we jammed! I am ecstatic! So still have Framesize 1ms experimental, which really helps on the latency. Mine is 7.3. I'm using a Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen. My friend is down to 4.something ms using a MOTU M2 interface. They said a recent M2 driver update brought id down to 4.2 from 8.x.
They are using Catalina, 10.15.5. I'm using Mojave 10.14.6.
They did NOT muck with their router NOR set fixed UDP ports in the Preferences.
Total delay in session with them was 17ms. They happened to be a few blocks down from me.
So i'm not sure what to say. My setup worked before i changed to 320Kbits/s. But i'm leaving on 320Kbits/s.
Thanks everyone for all your comments, etc.
But it is working now. If you have any questions about my setup please do ask and share what i am doing.
And don't forget to send some money to the gofundme for JK! I just did.
