We had a test session last night with 3 people A – B – C with the followingSetup:
Person A: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Steinberg UR22MK2, Internet 45Mbit/s download, 9Mbit/s upload
Person B: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Behringer UMC404HD, Internet 84Mbit/s download, 38Mbit/s upload
Person C: Mac Laptop, Interface Focusrite Scarlet Solo 3rd Gen, Internet 64Mbit/s download, 13Mbit/s upload
Physical Distances:
A – B: 7 km (3.5 miles)
A – C: 30 km (20 miles)
B – C: 23 km (15 miles)
Experiences:
A => B: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B => A: reasonable total latency, high internet jitter, very frequent package loss 100% and low audio Bw Rx resulting in extremely bad sound quality, i.e. frequent and long disruptions (95% of time no audio at all)
A => C: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
C => A: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B=> C: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
C => B: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
For details refer to attachedSketch01 with the session diagnostics to and fro between all participants.
Comments:
B and C had a session one day earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: internet latency 10ms, total latency 18 – 20 ms, good sound quality
A and B had a session a couple of days earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: low internet jitter whatsoever resulting in good sound quality, total latency approx. 25 ms
What we tested last night to get rid of the problems:
Leave the session and step back in person by person: no change => no change
Cancel the session and restart it => no change
On all 3 laptops: Sign out from JK, shut down JK, restart laptop, new JK session => no change
Just A leaves the session/new session with just B and C => no improvement with the B – C/C – B issue
Just C leaves the session/new session with just A and B => no improvement with the A – B issue
New experience: After 1 ½ hrs of restarts, new sessions etc. (see above) all of a sudden the A => B issue was gone without any changes in settings whatsoever. Clear sound without disruptions now. However, the B – C issue stayed unchanged. Refer to Sketch02.
Questions: Any explanations for the phenomena described? And more important, any ideas or advice what to do to get rid of the issues, reliable and for good? “Works every now and then” wouldn’t be a good basis for regular band rehearsals.
(11-05-2020, 12:00 PM)troublebass Wrote: We had a test session last night with 3 people A – B – C with the followingSetup:
Person A: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Steinberg UR22MK2, Internet 45Mbit/s download, 9Mbit/s upload
Person B: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Behringer UMC404HD, Internet 84Mbit/s download, 38Mbit/s upload
Person C: Mac Laptop, Interface Focusrite Scarlet Solo 3rd Gen, Internet 64Mbit/s download, 13Mbit/s upload
Physical Distances:
A – B: 7 km (3.5 miles)
A – C: 30 km (20 miles)
B – C: 23 km (15 miles)
Experiences:
A => B: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B => A: reasonable total latency, high internet jitter, very frequent package loss 100% and low audio Bw Rx resulting in extremely bad sound quality, i.e. frequent and long disruptions (95% of time no audio at all)
A => C: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
C => A: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B=> C: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
C => B: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
For details refer to attachedSketch01 with the session diagnostics to and fro between all participants.
Comments:
B and C had a session one day earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: internet latency 10ms, total latency 18 – 20 ms, good sound quality
A and B had a session a couple of days earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: low internet jitter whatsoever resulting in good sound quality, total latency approx. 25 ms
What we tested last night to get rid of the problems:
Leave the session and step back in person by person: no change => no change
Cancel the session and restart it => no change
On all 3 laptops: Sign out from JK, shut down JK, restart laptop, new JK session => no change
Just A leaves the session/new session with just B and C => no improvement with the B – C/C – B issue
Just C leaves the session/new session with just A and B => no improvement with the A – B issue
New experience: After 1 ½ hrs of restarts, new sessions etc. (see above) all of a sudden the A => B issue was gone without any changes in settings whatsoever. Clear sound without disruptions now. However, the B – C issue stayed unchanged. Refer to Sketch02.
Questions: Any explanations for the phenomena described? And more important, any ideas or advice what to do to get rid of the issues, reliable and for good? “Works every now and then” wouldn’t be a good basis for regular band rehearsals.
>>>
As you can read on this forum, on the FB-group and find when chatting to other jammers during sessions, a lot(!) of people (Jamkazam users) are experiencing these phenomena.
I doubt if anyone, but the developers of Jamkazam, can come up with a solution for the current issues.
We are experiencing the same. I've been able to deal with most JK challenges so far but we have not been able to rehearse for two weeks now (when using Jamkazam) with two different bands/groups of people. We can only hope and wait for improvement.
D./
(11-05-2020, 12:00 PM)troublebass Wrote: We had a test session last night with 3 people A – B – C with the followingSetup:
Person A: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Steinberg UR22MK2, Internet 45Mbit/s download, 9Mbit/s upload
Person B: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Behringer UMC404HD, Internet 84Mbit/s download, 38Mbit/s upload
Person C: Mac Laptop, Interface Focusrite Scarlet Solo 3rd Gen, Internet 64Mbit/s download, 13Mbit/s upload
Physical Distances:
A – B: 7 km (3.5 miles)
A – C: 30 km (20 miles)
B – C: 23 km (15 miles)
Experiences:
A => B: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B => A: reasonable total latency, high internet jitter, very frequent package loss 100% and low audio Bw Rx resulting in extremely bad sound quality, i.e. frequent and long disruptions (95% of time no audio at all)
A => C: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
C => A: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B=> C: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
C => B: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
For details refer to attachedSketch01 with the session diagnostics to and fro between all participants.
Comments:
B and C had a session one day earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: internet latency 10ms, total latency 18 – 20 ms, good sound quality
A and B had a session a couple of days earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: low internet jitter whatsoever resulting in good sound quality, total latency approx. 25 ms
What we tested last night to get rid of the problems:
Leave the session and step back in person by person: no change => no change
Cancel the session and restart it => no change
On all 3 laptops: Sign out from JK, shut down JK, restart laptop, new JK session => no change
Just A leaves the session/new session with just B and C => no improvement with the B – C/C – B issue
Just C leaves the session/new session with just A and B => no improvement with the A – B issue
New experience: After 1 ½ hrs of restarts, new sessions etc. (see above) all of a sudden the A => B issue was gone without any changes in settings whatsoever. Clear sound without disruptions now. However, the B – C issue stayed unchanged. Refer to Sketch02.
Questions: Any explanations for the phenomena described? And more important, any ideas or advice what to do to get rid of the issues, reliable and for good? “Works every now and then” wouldn’t be a good basis for regular band rehearsals.
>>>
As you can read on this forum, on the FB-group and find when chatting to other jammers during sessions, a lot(!) of people (Jamkazam users) are experiencing these phenomena.
I doubt if anyone, but the developers of Jamkazam, can come up with a solution for the current issues.
We are experiencing the same. I've been able to deal with most JK challenges so far but we have not been able to rehearse for two weeks now (when using Jamkazam) with two different bands/groups of people. We can only hope and wait for improvement.
D./
Can you please enter on a win10 cmd line (for Mac/linux I do not know the command)
ping -l 1000 -n 50 <peer_IP-or-DDNS_addr>
for each peer and report the average RTT. Buffer size 1000 bytes is important, the default 32 bytes do not result in reproduceable results.
Are all peers on the same ISP?
Our 3-piece band located in Munich encountered unmanageable delay times, most likely because we are on 3 different ISPs (Telekom, VF/KabelDeutschland, SWM). I believe all packets need to be routed via Frankfurt.
Cheers
-hg
(11-05-2020, 12:00 PM)troublebass Wrote: We had a test session last night with 3 people A – B – C with the followingSetup:
Person A: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Steinberg UR22MK2, Internet 45Mbit/s download, 9Mbit/s upload
Person B: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Behringer UMC404HD, Internet 84Mbit/s download, 38Mbit/s upload
Person C: Mac Laptop, Interface Focusrite Scarlet Solo 3rd Gen, Internet 64Mbit/s download, 13Mbit/s upload
Physical Distances:
A – B: 7 km (3.5 miles)
A – C: 30 km (20 miles)
B – C: 23 km (15 miles)
Experiences:
A => B: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B => A: reasonable total latency, high internet jitter, very frequent package loss 100% and low audio Bw Rx resulting in extremely bad sound quality, i.e. frequent and long disruptions (95% of time no audio at all)
A => C: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
C => A: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B=> C: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
C => B: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
For details refer to attachedSketch01 with the session diagnostics to and fro between all participants.
Comments:
B and C had a session one day earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: internet latency 10ms, total latency 18 – 20 ms, good sound quality
A and B had a session a couple of days earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: low internet jitter whatsoever resulting in good sound quality, total latency approx. 25 ms
What we tested last night to get rid of the problems:
Leave the session and step back in person by person: no change => no change
Cancel the session and restart it => no change
On all 3 laptops: Sign out from JK, shut down JK, restart laptop, new JK session => no change
Just A leaves the session/new session with just B and C => no improvement with the B – C/C – B issue
Just C leaves the session/new session with just A and B => no improvement with the A – B issue
New experience: After 1 ½ hrs of restarts, new sessions etc. (see above) all of a sudden the A => B issue was gone without any changes in settings whatsoever. Clear sound without disruptions now. However, the B – C issue stayed unchanged. Refer to Sketch02.
Questions: Any explanations for the phenomena described? And more important, any ideas or advice what to do to get rid of the issues, reliable and for good? “Works every now and then” wouldn’t be a good basis for regular band rehearsals.
While I cannot speak for the JK team, I'll hazard a guess that their new network acceleration network connectivity might be the culprit here. Here's what they told us at the end of September in their last email update:
"Latency Reduction & Connectivity Improvements
In our last email, we shared some data on the latency reduction and connectivity success rates we can see from our new networking technologies. We have been continuing to complete the implementation of this set of technologies. It’s pretty complex stuff, so it’s taking time. There is also a limit to how much we can test it ourselves without pu$ng it out onto the platform, so the transition period as we release and harden this technology is going to be a little bumpy - but worth it!"
(11-05-2020, 12:00 PM)troublebass Wrote: We had a test session last night with 3 people A – B – C with the followingSetup:
Person A: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Steinberg UR22MK2, Internet 45Mbit/s download, 9Mbit/s upload
Person B: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Behringer UMC404HD, Internet 84Mbit/s download, 38Mbit/s upload
Person C: Mac Laptop, Interface Focusrite Scarlet Solo 3rd Gen, Internet 64Mbit/s download, 13Mbit/s upload
Physical Distances:
A – B: 7 km (3.5 miles)
A – C: 30 km (20 miles)
B – C: 23 km (15 miles)
Experiences:
A => B: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B => A: reasonable total latency, high internet jitter, very frequent package loss 100% and low audio Bw Rx resulting in extremely bad sound quality, i.e. frequent and long disruptions (95% of time no audio at all)
A => C: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
C => A: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B=> C: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
C => B: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
For details refer to attachedSketch01 with the session diagnostics to and fro between all participants.
Comments:
B and C had a session one day earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: internet latency 10ms, total latency 18 – 20 ms, good sound quality
A and B had a session a couple of days earlier, same set up, same equipment, same internet, same settings in JK: low internet jitter whatsoever resulting in good sound quality, total latency approx. 25 ms
What we tested last night to get rid of the problems:
Leave the session and step back in person by person: no change => no change
Cancel the session and restart it => no change
On all 3 laptops: Sign out from JK, shut down JK, restart laptop, new JK session => no change
Just A leaves the session/new session with just B and C => no improvement with the B – C/C – B issue
Just C leaves the session/new session with just A and B => no improvement with the A – B issue
New experience: After 1 ½ hrs of restarts, new sessions etc. (see above) all of a sudden the A => B issue was gone without any changes in settings whatsoever. Clear sound without disruptions now. However, the B – C issue stayed unchanged. Refer to Sketch02.
Questions: Any explanations for the phenomena described? And more important, any ideas or advice what to do to get rid of the issues, reliable and for good? “Works every now and then” wouldn’t be a good basis for regular band rehearsals.
My interpretation of your (extensive!) recordings is that your player "B" may have an issue with their internet. I also agree with Dimitri that it may be simply ongoing Jamkazam issues. If you (and your other two players) are available, I'd ask you join "Terry's Technical Help Thursday" session scheduled for Thursday, 7:30 to 9:30 EST to explore a resolution to your issues. Dimitri, please feel free to join us...
11-07-2020, 08:02 AM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2020, 08:16 AM by troublebass.)
(11-05-2020, 10:12 PM)drummer1154 Wrote: Can you please enter on a win10 cmd line (for Mac/linux I do not know the command)
ping -l 1000 -n 50 <peer_IP-or-DDNS_addr>
for each peer and report the average RTT. Buffer size 1000 bytes is important, the default 32 bytes do not result in reproduceable results.
Are all peers on the same ISP?
Our 3-piece band located in Munich encountered unmanageable delay times, most likely because we are on 3 different ISPs (Telekom, VF/KabelDeutschland, SWM). I believe all packets need to be routed via Frankfurt.
Cheers
-hg
>>>
We will do that in our next test session. However, what will we do with the result? Which pameter can we change to improve the result? I understand that you are stuck as well, right
(11-06-2020, 02:18 AM)StuartR Wrote: While I cannot speak for the JK team, I'll hazard a guess that their new network acceleration network connectivity might be the culprit here. Here's what they told us at the end of September in their last email update:
"Latency Reduction & Connectivity Improvements
In our last email, we shared some data on the latency reduction and connectivity success rates we can see from our new networking technologies. We have been continuing to complete the implementation of this set of technologies. It’s pretty complex stuff, so it’s taking time. There is also a limit to how much we can test it ourselves without pu$ng it out onto the platform, so the transition period as we release and harden this technology is going to be a little bumpy - but worth it!"
>>>
That sounds similar to what Dimitri wrote. So, let's wait for a new version of JK?
Email from JamKazam: Does every registered JK user get such Emails automatically or did I miss a tickbox somewhere in JK or in the forum?
(11-07-2020, 12:28 AM)Terles Wrote: My interpretation of your (extensive!) recordings is that your player "B" may have an issue with their internet. I also agree with Dimitri that it may be simply ongoing Jamkazam issues. If you (and your other two players) are available, I'd ask you join "Terry's Technical Help Thursday" session scheduled for Thursday, 7:30 to 9:30 EST to explore a resolution to your issues. Dimitri, please feel free to join us...
>>>
I will try to join. How will I find this session? Could not see it in JK in the list of upcoming sessions so far. Would I need an invitation?
(11-05-2020, 12:00 PM)troublebass Wrote: We had a test session last night with 3 people A – B – C with the followingSetup:
Person A: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Steinberg UR22MK2, Internet 45Mbit/s download, 9Mbit/s upload
Person B: Windows10 Laptop, Interface Behringer UMC404HD, Internet 84Mbit/s download, 38Mbit/s upload
Person C: Mac Laptop, Interface Focusrite Scarlet Solo 3rd Gen, Internet 64Mbit/s download, 13Mbit/s upload
Physical Distances:
A – B: 7 km (3.5 miles)
A – C: 30 km (20 miles)
B – C: 23 km (15 miles)
Experiences:
A => B: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B => A: reasonable total latency, high internet jitter, very frequent package loss 100% and low audio Bw Rx resulting in extremely bad sound quality, i.e. frequent and long disruptions (95% of time no audio at all)
A => C: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
C => A: reasonable total latency, good sound quality
B=> C: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
C => B: high internet latency resulting in high total latency, good sound quality
Questions: Any explanations for the phenomena described? And more important, any ideas or advice what to do to get rid of the issues, reliable and for good? “Works every now and then” wouldn’t be a good basis for regular band rehearsals.
I spoke briefly with a member of the JK support team yesterday about this issue and they are aware of it and are planning to push out another client update this weekend to address it. Our band has agreed to participate in a test session with JK to verify the problem and potential solution. I'll provide an update as soon as we know more, hopefully by Sunday evening.
(11-07-2020, 12:39 PM)StuartR Wrote: I spoke briefly with a member of the JK support team yesterday about this issue and they are aware of it and are planning to push out another client update this weekend to address it. Our band has agreed to participate in a test session with JK to verify the problem and potential solution. I'll provide an update as soon as we know more, hopefully by Sunday evening.
>>>
Thx. That sounds great. Looking forward to your update.
