I can't seem to get this thing to work.. Video on the subject not useful. UR44C great for recording but JK doesn't seem to like it. Fails latency tests.. I am in Arizona, is that part of the problem? Also continual "Disconnected from Server" messages.. not a loss of internet connectivity - I have a 5 gigabit speed ethernet fiber internet connection and all other internet accesses are instantaneous. I'm fairly savvy on computer stuff but definitely not a network geek. I really don't want to learn all about networking to make this work. Do I need to hire a network specialist to get this set up? Please help. Thanks... Bill
08-05-2020, 07:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2020, 07:54 PM by blandis.)
Hi Bill, and welcome,
Hang in there. There are a bunch of things that need to be configured correctly to get this stuff all working. I will do my best to help point you in the right direction for the symptoms you have identified thus far. Network geeks help ( states the network geek...), but hopefully just checking a few things will solve the issues. Let's start:
1. "UR44CC great for recording": I assume that your interface is configured with ASIO drivers. Check Cubase "audio drivers" settings to confirm. Given it's a Steinberg interface, again I'm assuming it's ASIO (Steinberg standard) as is Cubase
2. "fails latency tests": JamKazam has (or maybe more correctly had) a collection of network testing servers for folks to check their systems. With the pandemic and the tremendous number of new and concurrent users, their servers could not keep up with the demand. In fact I think back in the Apr-Jun timeframe they were simply offline as they could not keep them up under the load. The JK team was also focused on fixing the client software. Not sure of the current status, but I would suggest ignoring that, and instead try a "solo session" just by yourself, and see how the software client runs.
3. continual "Disconnected from Server" messages: this is probably the trickiest one, as it could be many things, unless it's strictly the network test server, but I dont think it is. Most likely it is a blocking of server messages on your end, either at your Internet router's security settings, or at a "personal firewall" in your operating system (such as a Norton or McAfee firewall). Suggest you search the forum for key words "router", "firewall", "ports", and look for posts in your operating system (Windows or Mac) for help. Based on the limited info, that's about the best I can do unfortunately, but gives you some things to start with.
Hope this helps,
08-05-2020, 08:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2020, 08:50 PM by Bill F..)
(08-05-2020, 07:52 PM)blandis Wrote: Hi Bill, and welcome,
Hang in there. There are a bunch of things that need to be configured correctly to get this stuff all working. I will do my best to help point you in the right direction for the symptoms you have identified thus far. Network geeks help ( states the network geek...), but hopefully just checking a few things will solve the issues. Let's start:
1. "UR44CC great for recording": I assume that your interface is configured with ASIO drivers. Check Cubase "audio drivers" settings to confirm. Given it's a Steinberg interface, again I'm assuming it's ASIO (Steinberg standard) as is Cubase
2. "fails latency tests": JamKazam has (or maybe more correctly had) a collection of network testing servers for folks to check their systems. With the pandemic and the tremendous number of new and concurrent users, their servers could not keep up with the demand. In fact I think back in the Apr-Jun timeframe they were simply offline as they could not keep them up under the load. The JK team was also focused on fixing the client software. Not sure of the current status, but I would suggest ignoring that, and instead try a "solo session" just by yourself, and see how the software client runs.
3. continual "Disconnected from Server" messages: this is probably the trickiest one, as it could be many things, unless it's strictly the network test server, but I dont think it is. Most likely it is a blocking of server messages on your end, either at your Internet router's security settings, or at a "personal firewall" in your operating system (such as a Norton or McAfee firewall). Suggest you search the forum for key words "router", "firewall", "ports", and look for posts in your operating system (Windows or Mac) for help. Based on the limited info, that's about the best I can do unfortunately, but gives you some things to start with.
Hope this helps,
Well, I solved one thing... I chose the wrong AI I used Steingberg UR44C and when I switched to Yamaha Steinberg AISO and then adjusted the AISO settings I got down to some pretty good latency numbers. I'll look at firewalls etc...
(08-05-2020, 08:28 PM)Bill F. Wrote: [quote pid='5348' dateline='1596657162']
I use a security product called Eset and I turned on learning mode for my firewall... it is creating rules for JK.. still getting a few disconnects.. can't seem to find a test session though...
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That's great progress, Bill! You're doing great.
The app can be finicky, particularly if there are a bunch of users on, and they jump on your open session. Best performance is via private RSVP sessions, where you control the attendance. Also, the practical limitations of time delay due to extreme distance come into play, so I wouldn't expect good performance if jamming with someone more than 500 miles away, even if both ends have optimized their endpoints to very low latency (<8ms).
(08-05-2020, 08:28 PM)Bill F. Wrote:
(08-05-2020, 08:28 PM)Bill F. Wrote: [quote pid='5348' dateline='1596657162']
Re: Disconnects: firewall Learning mode and new rules didn't fix disconnect prob. Stopped firewall all together still disconnects. Got my buddy, real smart computer dude, to connect remotely to my pc and found out sporadic (but regular) incoming transmissions on ethernet link failing. Also found speed low versus what I'm paying for. He did all kinds of diagnosis and issue is with fiber internet provider equipment. They will be here on Sunday with new equipment and to do line testing. What an adventure.... whew.. and yes, I keep forgetting.. if it can go wrong, it will at my house...
[/quote]
08-06-2020, 12:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2020, 01:09 PM by Hans Peter Augustesen.)
What time delay / latency do you expect if jamming with someone more than 500 miles away, blandis? Provided "endpoints to very low latency (<8ms)"
Steinberg UR44C is mentioned elsewhere.
Maybe there is useful information there
https://forum.jamkazam.com/search.php?ac...order=desc
Hans: given current U.S. Internet congestion and crossover between multiple carriers, I picked 500 miles as a good mental reference point, below which JK's performance should be acceptable, and if not, tuning and troubleshooting should be considered before abandoning. It also matches my personal experience, albeit limited. This is approximately the expectation shown in JK's "JamBlaster - Understanding Latency" video of 28ms for the distances of U.S. cities mentioned, the rough distances between those points is approx 500 miles. Note that the example was not "coast-to-coast", which would be in the 2,500- to 3,500 mile range. I think my personal psychological latency tolerance is under 25ms, but close enough to 28ms I suppose. In this range, the video claims that JamBlaster's low latency improvement contributed enough to reduce the overall latency from (an implied) intolerable 39ms to a tolerable 28ms.
For distances greater than 500 miles, I believe the Internet latency's contribution to overall end-to-end latency becomes much greater than the respective latencies from each person's gear (in other words, endpoint tuning is only effective on approx. 40% or less of the total latency); and maybe more importantly the jitter on that Internet link grows proportionately as well.
I think this is an important point for users to understand, to set expectations for themselves and their sessions. Certain factors and circumstances can actually yield better performance and experience than this (example: just 2 people further apart, no video, tuned interfaces and JK settings, and "quiet" household traffic, including my experiences with the UK) , which I would consider "really good days/nights", but realistic, practical limitations of expectation should be acknowledged. Related to this I think it is important that all users of open jams specify their location in their profile, including nearest city and country, in the interest of making those sessions successful. I guarantee someone jumping on your open jam from 4,000 miles away with a blaring guitar will destroy your session within seconds, because the system's technology cannot accommodate drastically different latencies amongst the participants.
In my typical long-winded fa$on (sorry about that....), hope this helps
08-06-2020, 05:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2020, 10:16 PM by Hans Peter Augustesen.)
That is, at over 500 miles, the total latency is over 25-28 milliseconds.
Yes, it fits nicely with my observations.
Of course, this can only be a general guide.
As mentioned elsewhere, I have a connection of 1000 miles, where the total latency is about 28. And on the other hand, I have quite a few connections of under 500 miles that are up in the 40s and the 50s.
08-06-2020, 09:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2020, 10:02 PM by Hans Peter Augustesen.)
Perhaps the general 25-28 ms limit is rather at 400 miles, upon closer consideration. Well !?
From here Denmark, near Copenhagen, at least ...
Here are the countries that are partially within 500 miles:
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Russia, Belarus, Czech Republic, Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands and United Kingdom.
There is great variation in internet connections in the different countries and internally. With consequent large differences in total latency in the JamKazam sessions ...
08-10-2020, 06:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2020, 06:09 PM by Bill F..)
(08-06-2020, 01:54 AM)Bill F. Wrote: (08-05-2020, 08:28 PM)Bill F. Wrote:
(08-05-2020, 08:28 PM)Bill F. Wrote: [quote pid='5348' dateline='1596657162']
Re: Disconnects: firewall Learning mode and new rules didn't fix disconnect prob. Stopped firewall all together still disconnects. Got my buddy, real smart computer dude, to connect remotely to my pc and found out sporadic (but regular) incoming transmissions on ethernet link failing. Also found speed low versus what I'm paying for. He did all kinds of diagnosis and issue is with fiber internet provider equipment. They will be here on Sunday with new equipment and to do line testing. What an adventure.... whew.. and yes, I keep forgetting.. if it can go wrong, it will at my house...
8-10-2020 Update... internet provider replaced fiber modem.. speed sags still present and after more testing speed sags present at the vendors box on the street and not in fiber to my house or new modem... old router slowing things down especially on WIFI and somewhat on ethernet connection... discussing new router options with my computer buddy... transmission failures disappeared... will follow up with internet provider in a few days.. hopefully they will get on the issue with speed sags at street box in a timely manner... they did credit my account significantly for the speed issues.
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