Lowest Latency AI for Mac OS 10.15

[jimship]

I have a new Steinberg UR22C with my Mac using OS 10.15. I've tested it on JK at 8.8 ms latency. I can still exchange it at no cost for another AI with perhaps even lower latency (I understand that both MOTU M2 and Scarlett 2I2 are really good with latencies at around 4 ms). Is it worth it to replace AI in order to reduce latency by a few ms., or am I fine with the UR22C and 8.8 ms latency?    - Jim

[Dimitri Muskens]

I have a new Steinberg UR22C with my Mac using OS 10.15. I've tested it on JK at 8.8 ms latency. I can still exchange it at no cost for another AI with perhaps even lower latency (I understand that both MOTU M2 and Scarlett 2I2 are really good with latencies at around 4 ms). Is it worth it to replace AI in order to reduce latency by a few ms., or am I fine with the UR22C and 8.8 ms latency?    - Jim

>>>
IMHO 'round 8ms is a good general score on mac.
I've seen high end (high dollar) external sound cards achieve better with dedicated software/driver.
The most common used sound cards are in that 7-9ms range in JKZ (on mac/CoreAudio) with properly tuned frame size. (as I've seen so far)

It's a bit of a shame but same sound cards score 3-5ms on Windows machines with dedicated ASIO driver.

I myself went from a high spec MBP / MR18 combination at 8.3ms (at absolute best)
To a three year old Lenovo i5 with Windows10/ASIO, same MR18 at 4.1ms

Those 4.2ms I gained are just enough to get me under the 'magical' 20ms on most 'local' connections. (Had a tight band rehearsal last night)

[Phil Haines]

I have a new Steinberg UR22C with my Mac using OS 10.15. I've tested it on JK at 8.8 ms latency. I can still exchange it at no cost for another AI with perhaps even lower latency (I understand that both MOTU M2 and Scarlett 2I2 are really good with latencies at around 4 ms). Is it worth it to replace AI in order to reduce latency by a few ms., or am I fine with the UR22C and 8.8 ms latency?    - Jim

I have the same interface and use Windows 10 and generally get a latency of around 4ms if I have the sample rate down to the lowest it will go.

[ebenedito]

I have a new Steinberg UR22C with my Mac using OS 10.15. I've tested it on JK at 8.8 ms latency. I can still exchange it at no cost for another AI with perhaps even lower latency (I understand that both MOTU M2 and Scarlett 2I2 are really good with latencies at around 4 ms). Is it worth it to replace AI in order to reduce latency by a few ms., or am I fine with the UR22C and 8.8 ms latency?    - Jim

I have the same interface and use Windows 10 and generally get a latency of around 4ms if I have the sample rate down to the lowest it will go.

Hi Phil Haines,

When you say you can get the UR22C at 4ms in Windows/ASIO, is that stable? I mean, is the jitter of the HW stable and presented in green by JK?   
Reason I am asking is because I was able to get closer latency (4-5ms) with old HW (JamVox), but it gets jittery, hence I am thinking to take the plunge on a UR22C.  
Thanks in advance

[Dimitri Muskens]

I have a new Steinberg UR22C with my Mac using OS 10.15. I've tested it on JK at 8.8 ms latency. I can still exchange it at no cost for another AI with perhaps even lower latency (I understand that both MOTU M2 and Scarlett 2I2 are really good with latencies at around 4 ms). Is it worth it to replace AI in order to reduce latency by a few ms., or am I fine with the UR22C and 8.8 ms latency?    - Jim

I have the same interface and use Windows 10 and generally get a latency of around 4ms if I have the sample rate down to the lowest it will go.

Hi Phil Haines,

When you say you can get the UR22C at 4ms in Windows/ASIO, is that stable? I mean, is the jitter of the HW stable and presented in green by JK?   
Reason I am asking is because I was able to get closer latency (4-5ms) with old HW (JamVox), but it gets jittery, hence I am thinking to take the plunge on a UR22C.  
Thanks in advance

>>>

When you're still on MAC you're not going to get these 'low' latencies unless you're willing to invest in a high end/high dollar audio interface/sound card with a Thunderbolt connection.
Most USB eqpt seen sofar has been 'stuck' between 7-9ms using CoreAudio.

(to answer your recent question - dedicated WIN/ASIO can be very stable at 'low' (+/-4ms) latencies.

D./

[ebenedito]

Thanks Dimitri for your quick reply!
If you don't mind, I would like to ask you another quick question (hopefully is quick).
I can get here in Canada the UR22MKII instead of the UR22C (long story short is because of low stock during covid).. The UR22MKII is USB2.0 instead of the UR22C which is USB3. The question is, if you instruct the "Yamaha Steinberg driver" to use the High Speed USB option instead of the SuperSpeed (3.1), does it make any difference in the overall latency? Obviously I am looking at the Steinberg UR22C because of the reported ~4ms of latency which will help me with my internet speeds.
Thanks again in advance

[Dimitri Muskens]

Thanks Dimitri for your quick reply! 
If you don't mind, I would like to ask you another quick question (hopefully is quick). 
I can get here in Canada the UR22MKII instead of the UR22C (long story short is because of low stock during covid)..  The UR22MKII is USB2.0 instead of the UR22C which is USB3.  The question is, if you instruct the "Yamaha Steinberg driver" to use the High Speed USB option instead of the SuperSpeed (3.1), does it make any difference in the overall latency?  Obviously I am looking at the Steinberg UR22C because of the reported ~4ms of latency which will help me with my internet speeds.
Thanks again in advance

>>>
Hi, working with a MAC seems to be benefit from using a Focusrite audio interface/sound card. They have a so called 'low latency driver' (patch?) that can get your numbers down to I believe around the 4ms mark.

I'm not familiar with the yamaha/steinberg ai's or their dedicated drivers for MAC. How's the availability on Focusrite in Canada? (e.g. 4i4 / 8i6)
There's quite some info on FR here and on the web/FB.

Then again, if your connection is giving you high numbers, say over around 30ms (be it latency/jitter), then gaining 4ms on your eqpt is not going to be walhalla. Now when your just over 20ms total ATM and could get under 20ms by tweaking/changing eqpt, that would help a lot. Sub 20ms seems to be a sweet spot for a lot of people/situations.

NB - I was trying to find info on those low numbers with a MAC/UR22C combo. Do you have a reference?

[ebenedito]

Dimitri,
Thanks again.

Yes, 100% on your comment (re: "say over around 30ms (be it latency/jitter), then gaining 4ms on your eqpt is not going to be walhalla."). 

In my case, I think I am borderline on the 20-25ms overall latency (and this is using internet fiber connection).  My problem is that when using MAC, I get stable equipment (no HW jitter but on the 8-11ms HW latency range), but this  pushes me over the magic 25ms total with connected local JK members (my band).  On windows I can get down to 4-5ms overall HW latency using old equipment, which is good and puts me on the safe overall latency range, but the jitter is all over the place, it is not stable, hence looking for new equipment.

My options are the Focusrite 2i2 or 4i4, the Steinberg UR22mkii or UR22C. 

The UR22C is the one reported on the list of good interfaces in the forum with an excellent good latency in Windows (~4ms) and a good price point.  I haven't found any numbers for the UR22mkii (which is USB2.0) on the forum, hence I was trying to dig for information from people using similar setups/interfaces and USB 2.0.

 
Thanks for all the help and support guys.  This group rocks!

[SteveW]

With a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, MacOS Catalina, the Focusrite low-laency system extension hack, 48kHz sample rate, 1ms frame rate, I am seeing an interface latency of 4.5ms and the audio is quite stable.

[ebenedito]

Thanks