Too much me in the mix

[jdecrist@dejazzd.com]

I am using a Zoom UAC8 interface, which does not have a direct monitoring switch.  I am having trouble lowering my instrument and vocals for my personal JK mix while leaving enough of both for other jammers to interact.  

When I adjust individually using JK channel mute (respectively, electric guitar and vocal), and much to my surprise and displeasure, such muting does not take the referenced input out of my headphone mix, but does impact by dramatically reducing what others hear (even though, according to JK instructions, it's not supposed to affect anything but my personal JK  mix; likewise with the JK slider.  I conclude that my interface simultaneously feeds my input and output output to my headphone mix, and what I seek is a way around that.

The UAC8 allows me to set gain, and has individual sliders for each input.  On the AOC8, if I mute a channel, or reduce its volume by  use of the interface slider conctrol that input is removed entirely from (if muted) or adjusted proportionally from the output mix in relation to using the slider. With the UAC8, I can also loop back, but that function doesn't seem to apply to real time external input, but rather to streamed or file sources (like programmed drums or downloaded sound files) which I use,  for example, for  recording.

I believe my interface sends my input automatically to my headphones.  Can someone suggest a work around so I can bypass my input so it doesn't come through my headphones, but still is preserved and remains as set in the output sent to JK?

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Got it.  You can select specific outputs on the UAC8, thereby removing the input channels from the output mix.  On the software for the interface, UAC 8 Mix Effects you can choose by pairs of channels, line out only, which appears to allow the faders to impact the headphone mix, but not the line out presence.  Specifically, by choosing line out1/2 rather than main out, that's what goes to the headphones.

[GDJ]

Glad you figured it out. I have discovered the Input slider in the Audio Console allows me to control my own signal, without affecting the other players. I have the opposite issue sometimes, where everyone else at 0db is louder them me, and the signal to my interface is already good. The input slider helps me fit right in the mix.

[Filote]

I have the exact same issue, but using a MOTU 896mk3 interface on a Mac running Mojave. I haven't figured out how to turn off direct hardware monitoring (MOTU calls it Direct Hardware Playthrough).

For my instruments I can get great levels in the headphones using the MOTU volume trims. But adjusting the JK sliders does not affect levels in the headphones - it only adjusts the level meters next to the sliders.

Anyone know how to turn off DHP on the MOTU units?

Thank you!

[jdecrist@dejazzd.com]

Perhaps this will be helpful: The software for my Zoom UAC-8 (Mix Efx) gives me an on screen mixer which enables each of the 8 non-midi input channels with a circular knob-like control for the channel gain, which impacts directly upon the level sent to the output. It also features slider controls for each channel's input, and I can eliminate the input in my JKZ headphone mix by running the slider down all the way (or on the slider grid, to -00). This is helpful not only for JKZ, but for home recording as well, because rolling down the input volume permits me to match the volume of already recorded tracks to which I am adding an additional track. without impacting the output level for that track which becomes part of the recording, and can still be mixed up or down as necessary when perfecting the recorded mix.

Additionally, I can discretely choose and change the output (Main Out includes input, but Line Out does not). To sum up, try to figure out if your MOTU lets you regulate input volume down to no presence, or see if you have a choice of outputs that does not include present input.

[Filote]

Perhaps this will be helpful:  The software for my Zoom  UAC-8  (Mix Efx) gives me an on screen mixer which enables each of the 8  non-midi input channels with a circular knob-like control for the channel gain, which impacts directly upon the level sent to the output.  It also features slider controls for each channel's input, and I can eliminate the input in my JKZ headphone mix by running the slider down all the way (or on the slider grid, to -00).  This is helpful not only for JKZ, but for home recording as well, because  rolling down the input volume permits me to match the volume of already recorded tracks to which I am adding  an additional track. without impacting the output level for that track which becomes part of the recording, and can still be mixed up or down as necessary when perfecting the recorded mix.

Additionally, I can discretely choose and  change the output (Main Out includes input, but Line Out does not).  To sum up, try to figure out if your MOTU lets you regulate input volume down to no presence, or see if you have a choice of outputs that does not include present input.

Thank you for the suggestion, I appreciate it! Sounds like the equivalent software for MOTU is called CueMix.

In CueMix, there is a section called "Inputs" which have trim pots per channel, like your circular knobs; and in a section called "Mixes", there are volume faders, possibly like your sliders, 1 for each of the 8 outputs(I think they're for outs, but maybe for ins). I have them all turned down; yet I still get system volume per input channel when the trim pots are set to zero, and increase in volume when I turn them up.

The master volume knob, called "Monitor Level", behaves differently depending on what I set it to: If controlling Main Outs, all system sound is cut out when it's turned down. In this setting (Main Outs), the master volume knob on the hardware interface mirrors this behavior. But if Monitor Level in CueMix is controlling "Stereo", then system sound is audible (slightly louder than in Main Outs). In this setting (Stereo), the knob in the software and on the hardware do nothing to change volume up or down. The per-channel trim pots on the inputs behave the same in either mode (Main Outs or Stereo): the volume is still present when the trim is turned all the way to zero, but increases when turned up.

So I guess I don't understand the routing of CueMix, and only a little bit of it's relation$p to the hardware. There are settings in a mini-app called "MOTU Audio Setup", where you can assign things like Default Stereo in/out, Phones assign, Main Out assign, Return assign, etc; which may affect the routings, but it's a mystery to me. 

I wish the manual made more sense! It's a legacy product (Has worked since 2012), so I kind of doubt I'll get support from MOTU. I've posted in "MOTUNation" forum and searched the MOTU support website, hoping for some guidance. Thanks again!

[Filote]

Well, here's a bit more info:

It's subtle, but in a solos session you can just barely hear a doubling of signal in JK when you turn the faders up. And the VU meters for the faders work - the signal shown in the meters increases as I turn the faders up. Also, there *is* a tiny little bit of gain I can hear in the headphones, but very little increase in volume, only an increase in distortion.

Does that sound like normal expected JK behavior? Still seems like too much me and not enough them, and very little volume increase.

Thanks for any ideas,

[GDJ]

Filote, some of the older MOTU interfaces do not have a knob or switch on the Interface to control Direct Monitoring. With that said, you need to become familiar with CueMix, the GUI software that installed with the MOTU driver. TIP. In CueMix, if you MUTE the tracks that is the equivalent of turning off Direct Monitoring. When JK is running, the audio is passed directly to JK and you are NOT hearing direct monitoring. CueMix allows you to control DSP Dynamics, global reverb, EQ. Basically, it is the virtual mixer. Just make sure you trackes are Muted in CueMix. It's in the Applications folder.

[Filote]

Filote, some of the older MOTU interfaces do not have a knob or switch on the Interface to control Direct Monitoring. With that said, you need to become familiar with CueMix, the GUI software that installed with the MOTU driver. TIP. In CueMix, if you MUTE the tracks that is the equivalent of turning off Direct Monitoring. When JK is running, the audio is passed directly to JK and you are NOT hearing direct monitoring. CueMix allows you to control DSP Dynamics, global reverb, EQ. Basically, it is the virtual mixer. Just make sure you trackes are Muted in CueMix. It's in the Applications folder.

Thanks VERY much for the info. General definitive tidbits are REALLY helpful, because they can't be found in any manuals (e.g., Muting tracks in CueMix turns off DM; When JK is running the audio is passed directly to JK and not DM). I appreciate it!

Since this adventure started, and my first post, I've been through CueMix and it's manual multiple multiple times. But it's not behaving as I would expect, or perhaps my expectations of JK are incorrect:

Inside JK during a Solo session, I can turn the fader of my keyboard down all the way in the "My Live Tracks" section - even check the Mute checkbox, but I'm still hearing the keyboard at same volume--nothing varies. It's supposed to turn down, if not turn all the way off, correct? You'd think this means DM is active. But in CueMix, I have EVERYTHING muted (For all 8 buses, each input is muted, and the main bus is muted as well).

I have confirmed during a test session with a friend that the Mute button does kill outgoing signal. Maybe solo sessions behave differently than sessions with others? I'm planning a test session with him later this week, but at the moment I can't imagine where the signal is coming from during solo sessions.

Thanks for any advice!

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WHEW! Found the problem: 

Awhile back I had tried to use the program "Loopback" to send live audio into JK, but ran into problems so I bailed on the idea; but didn't realize the connections I made in Loopback were persistent, so that they were behaving like Direct Monitoring. Once the links in Loopback were deleted, JK is behaving as expected:

Session faders are adjusting the mix in my headphones. Woot!

Thanks for the help, all.

[GDJ]

Glad to hear you are figuring it out. CueMix can bend the mind. And, you can have multiple mixes, which I was going so suggest could be why you were still hearing the Keyboard, even though you were muted in JK and CueMix. Once you come up for air again, try an learn about how you can have different mixes in CueMixes. It's convoluted, but powerful. It has essentially become my virtual mixing board since I use all 8 inputs of the AI, but I'm often tempted to just drop a 8 or 12 channel hardware mixer in front of the A, plug everything into the mixer, and down mix to inputs 1 & 2 of the AI, simply because the knobs are accessible along with other mixing board options.