Sometimes the recordings of our sessions work very well indeed. Other times, though, there are tracks that repeatedly fail to upload to the server. Looking at the logs in the file manager, the errors are shown as "Network-error" or "AWS-upload-failed". Sometimes, after repeated attempts by the file manager, the tracks do eventually upload: other times they never seem to get uploaded.
Does anyone know why these errors occur and whether there is anything the user can do to mitigate the problem, please? Anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for the replies. It is not the mixed recordings that I am so much concerned about (for one thing, we never seem to get the balance of instruments quite right in a live session). What we generally do is to take the individual instrument tracks and then mix them in a DAW.
What seems to happen in JK is that each individual's machine records their own track, then the JK app is supposed to upload them to the server (but sometimes doesn't). The server then downloads them to each participant's computer. When they have all arrived at my local machine I can load them into a DAW and mix them. The problem is that sometimes a particular track never gets uploaded to the server, despite the app making repeated attempts to do so. We then have to pass the tracks around amongst our band members using some other mechanism such as DropBox. This has a lot of scope for errors, with multiple instrumental, and vocal, tracks from different dates being passed around and all with obscure file names.
I'm usually very pleased with the quality of the final mixes we get...at least with the recording quality, if not my playing! But it would save a lot of time and faffing about if JK's automated file transfer system worked all the time and not just 80% of the time.
08-15-2020, 05:01 PM (This post was last modified: 08-15-2020, 05:20 PM by Hans Peter Augustesen.)
Hi, Steve
All tracks from all participants are placed immediately on each person's hard drive - during recording.
No need to wait for the server
The recorded files are - normally - located here (for Windows):
C:\Users\*NAME*\Music\JamKazam\Recordings
The tracks that are recorded on one's own PC during the session are mixed tracks that include all the instruments/mics from an individual band member. So the use of those tracks relies on the band member having set a very good balance between their sources. In practice, people set a balance that is most helful to them while playing live, rather than the best balance for a band. For example, we have a band member whose session track consists of a mix of an accordion (which has in-built mics), a midi bass track driven from the bass keys on the accordion and a vocal mic. Using that as a single "track" in a DAW does not give any scope for making fine adjustments to the balance of those sources and does not, for example allow the application of different EQ to bass and vocals in the final DAW mix.
On the occasions when the JK app sucessfully uploads/downloads individual tracks, it replaces this mixed track with 3 separate tracks for accordion, midi bass and vocal mic tracks. I have got much better results in the final mix by using these separate tracks. As this approach gives a much better final mix, and is supported by the JK app sometimes, it would be great to know if there is a way to get it to work all the time.
08-15-2020, 05:44 PM (This post was last modified: 08-15-2020, 06:25 PM by Hans Peter Augustesen.)
(08-15-2020, 05:26 PM)SteveW Wrote: Hi Hans Peter
The tracks that are recorded on one's own PC during the session are mixed tracks that include all the instruments/mics from an individual band member. So the use of those tracks relies on the band member having set a very good balance between their sources. In practice, people set a balance that is most helful to them while playing live, rather than the best balance for a band. For example, we have a band member whose session track consists of a mix of an accordion (which has in-built mics), a midi bass track driven from the bass keys on the accordion and a vocal mic. Using that as a single "track" in a DAW does not give any scope for making fine adjustments to the balance of those sources and does not, for example allow the application of different EQ to bass and vocals in the final DAW mix.
On the occasions when the JK app sucessfully uploads/downloads individual tracks, it replaces this mixed track with 3 separate tracks for accordion, midi bass and vocal mic tracks. I have got much better results in the final mix by using these separate tracks. As this approach gives a much better final mix, and is supported by the JK app sometimes, it would be great to know if there is a way to get it to work all the time.
Regards
Steve
Attached are two images of the content from a recording - some weeks ago.
All the wav files were - as can be seen - placed there at exactly the same time. During recording.
And these are files from all participants without exception that were present during the recording.
If nothing has changed in that regard in JamKazam since then, then it should be something like this for everyone.
Thanks for the reply. I suppose it is possible that the behaviour of the app has changed, or that there is a difference between PC and Mac versions. However, looking at equivalent files on my computer, the equivalent wav files would be one from each participant and would represent the audio stream exactly as received from that participant during the session. So, in the case of my friend who plays accordion, bass and sings, his wav file would be his own mix of those three sources. In your case, the wav files were written to the disk at 23:40, which is presumably when your session ended.
The ogg files, if they are like the equivalent on my machine, would include separate files for each of your own sources. I assume those are the two saved at 23:46 and maybe the one at 23.47. Presumably these take a few minutes to save because JK has to do some processing, such as converting them to ogg.
After your session had ended, the JK file manager (if it works like mine) would have uploaded your ogg files to the central server, along with individual track files from each of the other participants. A little later, between 00:09 and 03:16 the following day, the server sent you copies of all those ogg files. That spread of time is interesting as it suggests that a file from one of the other participants was uploaded to the server and downloaded to you in about 23 minutes from the end of the session, but another such file took about three and a half hours to do the same. Even given different internet speeds, this rather supports the view that the upload/download process is a bit unstable.
I don't know if I am right without listening to those files on your computer but, certainly in the recordings I am getting at the moment, the wav files invariably contain a mix of all the instruments of an individual participant and not individual tracks for each of their instruments. This is fine for a band member who just plays a single instrument, but not so great for one who effectively plays 2 instruments and sings simultaneously.
08-16-2020, 12:24 PM (This post was last modified: 08-16-2020, 01:16 PM by Hans Peter Augustesen.)
23:40 is the time when the recording was completed, I would think.
I'm not yet aware of when the session itself ended. But it may be established ...
We were 6 in the session when the recording was made.
The 5 wav files in the main folder are from the other five. They're in stereo.
The 3 wav files in the wav_files folder are mine, 1 stereo track (MIDI Bass Pedal) and 2 mono (guitar + voice).
"the wav files invariably contain a mix of all the instruments of an individual participant and not individual tracks for each of their instruments"!?
It depends on how the different people have set up their track(s).
If they e.g. only uses a mixer with e.g. three instruments / sound sources connected, then all three instruments / sources will be mixed together in the same track.
Of course, it is not so good if you want to mix yourself
You say that it depends on how the tracks are set up. I'm not sure I understand this. None of the band members uses a physical mixer. They all have audio interfaces with either 2 or 4 inputs (I think) with any mixing done by the JK app. In all cases these inputs get mixed by the app down to single streams which go to each of the other particpants during the live session. However, JK also saves local copies of the individual tracks. Is there some setting (which none of my band have found) that would send those as separate tracks during the live session? Currently we have to wait until the JK file manager sends them after the session has finished...but sometimes fails to do so.
