Headphone latency

[Mike mM]

Hello. My friend and I set up Jamkazam and it’s working great except when we use the recording feature, we get a lot of echo and repeating drum beats and double guitar. Also, When we play and record using different software, his guitar always seems to be a little behind my drums in my headphones but the recording is tight. Has anyone had trouble like that?

[Hans Peter Augustesen]

Headphone latency!?

A regular headphone has about 9 milliseconds latency. You are not able to hear that small latency.

Headphones latency has nothing to do with your problem.

Your problem has to do with other kinds of latency.

Especially internet latency - but also audio gear latency.

What you hear depends also on which recording you hear. They are simply different in the timing. Your friends recording or?

Or maybe a total another phenomen. It is impossible to judge from your info

[Mike mM]

I am experiencing a problem with a delay when trying to play with another musician. I play drums, and When I hear his guitar through my phones it always seems a little behind so I am constantly trying to adjust to keep in time. We tried recording with my headphones off and it is right on. Any ideas? Thank you, Mike

[Dimitri Muskens]

>>>
That is latency for you.
Gear and internet latency combined gives you, especially as a drummer, an offset in timing.
A 'timekeeper', as you are playing the drums, gets 'double the fun' :-( out of the latency.
First, you lay down a beat, which reaches your bandmate/peer with a little delay (latency) he/she plays his/her part to your groove, which reaches you, again with a little delay. This 'forces' you to start playing to his/her timing which in turn starts to slow everything down. The person playing to your groove however, is perfectly happy. He/she does not get anything from the return path delay (latency) you are getting.

When you, between your peers, can achieve <20ms of total latency (so audio gear & internet combined), it wil be a lot more pleasant for you as a drummer to jam online.

[LeeBert]

>>>
That is latency for you.
Gear and internet latency combined gives you, especially as a drummer, an offset in timing.
A 'timekeeper', as you are playing the drums, gets 'double the fun' :-( out of the latency.
First, you lay down a beat, which reaches your bandmate/peer with a little delay (latency) he/she plays his/her part to your groove, which reaches you, again with a little delay. This 'forces' you to start playing to his/her timing which in turn starts to slow everything down. The person playing to your groove however, is perfectly happy. He/she does not get anything from the return path delay (latency) you are getting.

When you, between your peers, can achieve <20ms of total latency (so audio gear & internet combined), it wil be a lot more pleasant for you as a drummer to jam online.

Hey Dimitri. Quick question. What latency should I be shooting for with my audio gear? I'm getting about 6.8ms with my AudioBox with some jitter.

I understand generically that the lower the better. I'm more curious what people who are having successful sessions are getting with their audio devices. I'm not opposed to replacing my unit if other units are getting 3-4ms AND if that's really makes a difference. I'm not sure I can get this audio device any lower.

Appreciate your posts in this forum.

[Hans Peter Augustesen]

I have somehow the same choice.

Shall I continue with my older and good Behringer UMC 404 and Windows 7.

Where the latency is 4.2 ms.

Or shall I stick to my new somehow better gear and Windows 10.

Where the latency is 7.2 ms (for the time being - without any careful tweaking)

Of course I will stick to my new and in the whole better gear.

The difference is "silly" 3 milliseconds.

That is so to speak nothing to write home about. If really needed, a tiny postcard can do it.

7.2 is good enough for my needs.

3 milliseconds is not more than 3 feet, so to speak.

Added to the usual 30-60 feet, it may not interfere with my night's sleep.

[Dimitri Muskens]

>>>
That is latency for you.
Gear and internet latency combined gives you, especially as a drummer, an offset in timing.
A 'timekeeper', as you are playing the drums, gets 'double the fun' :-( out of the latency.
First, you lay down a beat, which reaches your bandmate/peer with a little delay (latency) he/she plays his/her part to your groove, which reaches you, again with a little delay. This 'forces' you to start playing to his/her timing which in turn starts to slow everything down. The person playing to your groove however, is perfectly happy. He/she does not get anything from the return path delay (latency) you are getting.

When you, between your peers, can achieve <20ms of total latency (so audio gear & internet combined), it wil be a lot more pleasant for you as a drummer to jam online.

Hey Dimitri. Quick question. What latency should I be shooting for with my audio gear? I'm getting about 6.8ms with my AudioBox with some jitter.

I understand generically that the lower the better. I'm more curious what people who are having successful sessions are getting with their audio devices. I'm not opposed to replacing my unit if other units are getting 3-4ms AND if that's really makes a difference. I'm not sure I can get this audio device any lower.

Appreciate your posts in this forum.

>>>
LeeBert, the total latency is the figure you're targeting. Getting that as low as possible, <20ms would be a nice aim, is your goal. Where you're shaving off those milliseconds doesn't really matter. Mind you, 'the internet' so your WAN is almost always the biggest culprit. Whereas the situation on LAN and even audio interface/sound card can be remedied, the time travelled over the net is outside your control.

[Hans Peter Augustesen]

Another way to put it

An example:

The TOTAL LATENCY between me and a person in the north of Norway 2000 kilometers away is 30 milliseconds.

While the TOTAL LATENCY between me and another person in France 1500 km away is 60ms

3 ms (GEAR LATENCY savings) is 1/10 of the 30 ms.

While 3ms is "only" 1/20 of the 60ms.

The INTERNET LATENCY is about 20ms in the first case.

The INTERNET LATENCY is about 50ms in the second case

In both cases the GEAR LATENCY is about 10ms - combined from two audio interface.

All numbers are rounded up or down a bit

---

Of course - if both persons together can save 6 milliseconds in total, it will begin to matter for sure.

But that is mostly a benefit for those that have very good connections between each other.

I had a connection with a person 15 miles away, where the total latency was 16 milliseconds

If we together could spare 6ms, the result would be 10 milliseconds.

That would be exstremely good. Nobody can hear latency below 10ms. Except when afraid or "on speed" - studies show

But not needed, really. 16ms is also very very good.

---

But then again.

The higher the latency, the stronger the need to reduce it.