• Realtek WMD
  
• WMD USB Audio
  
• ASIO4ALL 
  
• Reaper  ASIO
  
• Native driver
  

(06-22-2020, 06:00 PM)Steven Minzer Wrote: I am having difficulty figuring out the best way for me to setup my gear for playing in jamkazam sessions.

I have an acoustic piano, an old Sony Vaio PC and a newly-purchased Behringer XENYX Q802USB. I have been using Jamkazam predominantly to rehearse with an acoustic bass player who lives not far from me. My observations in this posting are based on Jamkazam sessions with the bass player, though I aspire to play with others at greater distances as well. The bass player has been exclusively using Realtek WMD so far, though he too has recently acquired a Behringer audio interface and may be confronted with similar issues.

I have been considering the following options, which I will discuss below.

• Realtek WMD
  
• WMD USB Audio
  
• ASIO4ALL 
  
• Reaper  ASIO
  
• Native driver
  

(1) Realtek WMD

I first tried the Realtek WMD after initially installing Jamkazam, before purchasing the Behringer, using my PC mic to pick up audio. My latency was low, around 5-6 ms., and my jitter was generally acceptable. Jamkazam’s only “complaint” was that I was using  WMD, not ASIO.  Nonetheless, I bought the Behringer hoping to be able to use a better microphone while retaining low latency, so far without success.

(2) WMD USB Audio

While Behringer recommends using ASIO4ALL for its Q802USB,  many Jamkazam users have noted problems with it, so I tried using the Windows WMD USB Audio driver first. Latency increased  to 20ms, making it difficult to play together. There was a tendency for our tempo to slow down during a tune , so I decided to go back to using Realtek for rehearsals.

(3) ASIO4ALL 

Deciding to check out  ASIO4ALL for myself, I discovered that I could not successfully use the smaller frame sizes (around 2.5 ms.), needing to set my frame size to 10 ms, to get intelligible audio. This resulted  in 31 ms. latency. Inexplicably it seemed easier for us to play together when I used ASIO4ALL than WMD USB Audio. If I retry WMW USB again, would we still have problems playing together?

(4) Reaper ASIO (Rearoute ASIO)

After reading an excellent Jamkazam forum posting by marhdeth ( https://forum.jamkazam.com/printthread.php?tid=537 ) ,  I followed the recommendation, trying the Reaper DAW. Using a 2.5 ms frame size, I brought latency down in the jamkazam test to 5-6 ms. However I was not able to successfully add this gear configuration to my audio profile, failing the I/O rate and variance test. In a response to the marhdeth posting, Nick Blair reported having the same problem, and the thread does not posit a solution.

Nonetheless, this result was  encouraging since I finally obtained low latency for a setup using a superior microphone connected to the Behringer. But it leaves the question of what to do about the I/O test problem.

It seems that my PC may be the culprit. I have observed that the processor utilization percentage reported by Jamkazam for my VAIO using Rearoute ASIO are considerably higher than those for the bass player using Realtek. His PC is newer than mine. 

The CPU of my PC is an Intel® Core™2 Duo CPU T6600 @ 2.20GHz. It has 4.0 GB DDR2 memory, with Task Manager showing 2.1G, 55%, in memory utilization without Jamkazam or Reaper running.

Is there something that I can do with my PC to pass the test? Or must I invest in a new one for the sake of Jamkazam? Obviously, I don’t want to lay out a lot of cash and then discover the purchase does not solve the problem or was unnecessary for addressing it.

(5) Native Driver

Some USB audio interface devices use an ASIO driver recommended by their manufacturer. There are suggestions on the Internet that a driver designed for a different product can be substituted for ASIO4ALL. I tried one such suggestion recommending a Behringer ASIO driver and it did not work for me. I do not think I will try something like this again without first getting approval from someone affiliated with Behringer.

Suggestions from anyone knowing how to best deal with my situation would be appreciated.

(06-23-2020, 12:24 PM)Steven Minzer Wrote: Thanks, StuartR. I ran LatancyMon, but could not  paste a screenshot in a New Reply, my post attempt failing due to an excessive message length error (Is there a link to a tutorial on using forums for meeting. I am entering the red text portion from the screenshot.
——
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DFC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long.  At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a W-LAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
———
I read the first three chapters of Glitch Free, the audio and computer for dummies overview. The section comparing the processor to a chef made me sad, since I haven’t gone out to eat for some time. Chapter 4 starts getting into the nuts and bolts of tuning. while I have come across tuning suggestions here and there, it’s good to have a comprehensive treatment of the subject and I will be working my way through it.

I am sorry that I am not able to share more results from LatencyMon, but wanted to send this quick reply out.

Thanks for your help.

(06-23-2020, 08:40 PM)StuartR Wrote:

(06-23-2020, 12:24 PM)Steven Minzer Wrote: Thanks, StuartR. I ran LatancyMon, but could not  paste a screenshot in a New Reply, my post attempt failing due to an excessive message length error (Is there a link to a tutorial on using forums for meeting. I am entering the red text portion from the screenshot.
——
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DFC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long.  At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a W-LAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
———
I read the first three chapters of Glitch Free, the audio and computer for dummies overview. The section comparing the processor to a chef made me sad, since I haven’t gone out to eat for some time. Chapter 4 starts getting into the nuts and bolts of tuning. while I have come across tuning suggestions here and there, it’s good to have a comprehensive treatment of the subject and I will be working my way through it.

I am sorry that I am not able to share more results from LatencyMon, but wanted to send this quick reply out.

Thanks for your help.

The fact that the text in the report is in red indicates your PC, in its current state, isn't capable of handling real-time audio. Please post the text report. Don't use a quoted reply so as not to include all your previous text which is where the posting error is coming from.

Some initial things you'll need to do:

1) Change your PC power plan to maximum.
2)  Disable WiFi and Bluetooth
3) Be sure your PC or laptop, is running on AC power... never on battery.
4) Disable Background apps.
5) Go to ADD/REMOVE programs and uninstall anything you don't need. Since you've had this PC a while I'd guess it's loaded with unnecessary apps, secondary antivirus tools,etc. Clean all this out.
6) Go to the vendor (Sony) site and be sure the latest BIOS and drivers are installed.

You never said what version of Windows you are running?

Then rerun LatencyMon (for at least 5 minutes) and compare the results.

LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:07:07  (h:mms) on all processors.

(06-29-2020, 11:24 AM)Steven Minzer Wrote: On p. 66 of Glitch Free, it says:

ACPI.sys will often show slow DPC latency times on battery powered machines. Do not disable the ACPI driver nor the Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System device. Rather, disable the “ACPI compliant battery” or “Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery” device. Unfortunately you’ll lose you battery icon and some power management settings.

I discovered a free update of an “ACPI compliant control method battery driver” on a web page. Should I install it? The PC is plugged into AC power.  Would it be better to Just take the Glitch Free recommendation to disable battery?

(07-02-2020, 05:17 PM)Steven Minzer Wrote: Thanks again, StuartR.
I have been trying to find the Bios Update on the Sony site  for my Vaio without any luck. I phoned Sony support and spoke to someone who told me that Vaio Care  only dealt with software problems and that Best Buy (yes!) dealt with hardware and BIOs. It is impossible to talk to anyone at Best Buy without an appointment. I don’t know who might at Best BUY  provide the BIos info to me there.They don’t even sell SonyvPCs anymore.

Anyway, I am providing relevant information here about my PC and Bios.
From the Vaio Control Center/System Information page:
Model Name: VGN-NW320F
BIOS Version: R2010Y4
OS Version: Windows 10 Home (64-bit version)
Note that the original OS was Window 7 Home.

The model on the tag on the back of the PC is PCG-7192L, which I found useless for searching.
I got hits for the VGN model name, but nothing related to BIOS downloads and updates.

If anyone knows where I can find the BIOS stuff, I will give it a try. But I am pretty much resolved to the fact that the time has come to buy a new laptop. Of course it needs Ethernet and USB 3 is a good idea, though my USB device is USB 2. Any other suggestions? Any views on Mac vs PC?  I’ve always had PCs, but I spend most of my time on my iphone and iPad.

Although a frustrating experience,  I have learned a great deal about what to do with the new computer when I get it.

I still  have not resolved many questions  on what to do about Asio4all, a DAW (Reaper) and optimization of  audio settings.
I may also consider getting a different USB device in the future, though I am grateful for finding the XENYX  when Idid.
Again, any opinions on the way to go will be appreciated.

(07-02-2020, 05:55 PM)StuartR Wrote:

(07-02-2020, 05:17 PM)Steven Minzer Wrote: Thanks again, StuartR.
I have been trying to find the Bios Update on the Sony site  for my Vaio without any luck. I phoned Sony support and spoke to someone who told me that Vaio Care  only dealt with software problems and that Best Buy (yes!) dealt with hardware and BIOs. It is impossible to talk to anyone at Best Buy without an appointment. I don’t know who might at Best BUY  provide the BIos info to me there.They don’t even sell SonyvPCs anymore.

Anyway, I am providing relevant information here about my PC and Bios.
From the Vaio Control Center/System Information page:
Model Name: VGN-NW320F
BIOS Version: R2010Y4
OS Version: Windows 10 Home (64-bit version)
Note that the original OS was Window 7 Home.

The model on the tag on the back of the PC is PCG-7192L, which I found useless for searching.
I got hits for the VGN model name, but nothing related to BIOS downloads and updates.

If anyone knows where I can find the BIOS stuff, I will give it a try. But I am pretty much resolved to the fact that the time has come to buy a new laptop. Of course it needs Ethernet and USB 3 is a good idea, though my USB device is USB 2. Any other suggestions? Any views on Mac vs PC?  I’ve always had PCs, but I spend most of my time on my iphone and iPad.

Although a frustrating experience,  I have learned a great deal about what to do with the new computer when I get it.

I still  have not resolved many questions  on what to do about Asio4all, a DAW (Reaper) and optimization of  audio settings.
I may also consider getting a different USB device in the future, though I am grateful for finding the XENYX  when Idid.
Again, any opinions on the way to go will be appreciated.

I took a quick look at the vendor site and didn't see any BIOS updates either. All the updates are for Windows 7 which tells us that laptop has seen better days. If you can afford a new one, go for it.