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+--- Thread: Recorded Tracks not synchronised (/showthread.php?tid=792)
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Johannes - 05-13-2020
(05-12-2020, 01:39 PM)Hans Peter Augustesen Wrote: You are not downloading any files from the server.
The server is uploading them - to you. Without any intervention on your part
Eventually look her, by the way:
New content in recorded folders - what is going on?
> https://forum.jamkazam.com/showthread.php?tid=781
Ok, from my perspective it still seems that the app is downloading from the server, not vice versa, that wouldn't really work without the JamKazam app, and "uploading from the server" seems an odd way to put it. But I know what you mean and in principle I agree. It doesn't need intervention from me, as long as the JamKazam app is running. ;-)
(05-12-2020, 06:11 PM)bullmoon Wrote: I have only been doing this a few times but noticed similar problems trying to do the mix myself. I also noticed that the individual track recordings may seem time stretched in comparison - so that I may have to shrink or stretch them to line up. It's almost as if there is some clocking drift - likely or possibly due to jitter which we do see some of on the indicators. I need to do something more exact to test this - creates some specific test files to play into JK to see what's up with the drift and offsets.
Really? I hadn't noticed anything like this, but perhaps you made longer recordings? Once I had compensated the delay of one of the tracks everything seemed just fine. I worked out that this delay was app 250ms for the one recording we did so far, I'd love to know how to find this value reliably.
We will do more recordings soon, perhaps I will find out more. If this delay is unavoidable I would like to get some help by having a couple of markers inside the audio file or something similar, where I can resync the tracks easily. Any ideas welcome...
If not I just have to compensate manually, it is easily done, I just don't like trial and error for something like this if it can be avoided.
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Hans Peter Augustesen - 05-13-2020
Yes, Johannes.
"the app is downloading from the server".
But you are not.
You can not stop this automatic proces.
That will in short say that this automatic process is not in any way controlled by you.
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Johannes - 05-13-2020
I understand what you mean, and I may well be wrong, but for my logic "uploading from the server" is a contradiction in terms. For me it is either "downloading from the server" or "uploading to the server". It makes no difference who initiates it, the Server is always up and I am always down. But again, perhaps my logic is just wrong.
BTW, I just noticed your tipp on keeping uncompressed files elsewhere in the forum, thanks for that!
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Hans Peter Augustesen - 05-13-2020
I blankly admit that my wording is clumsy.
I have now changed some of it to a less clumsy wording - more logical, one could say, maybe:
"You can not stop this automatic proces.
That will in short say that this automatic process is not in any way controlled by you."
So you are in fact doing - nothing. Neither downloading, neither uploading
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Hans Peter Augustesen - 05-13-2020
In its own way, we download from and upload to the server.
This is when files on the hard drive or server are not yet fully uploaded and / or downloaded
And if JamKazam, by the way, has not started, then nothing happens in that regard.
But after we start JamKazam, uploading and / or downloading begins.
In that situation, we can claim that we download or upload
We start the process ourselves, in its own way. By starting JamKazam
---
It is not easy - with that science, so to speak
Hm! lol
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - bullmoon - 05-14-2020
In movies they use a clapper board - that board with a hinged top they clap shut before a take to sync the sound to video, so the trick would be to do something like that at the beginning of a recording.. There may be a way to put a VST into the instrument tracks that can receive a common click track or clap track played from the audio file on JK. That way the clapper should/might be at same spot on all the recordings so they could be lined up. We're trying to figure this out too.
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Johannes - 05-14-2020
Since JamKazam intends to mix the original tracks together (which in my case has actually never happened, but I am told it worked in the past), there must be a way for it to figure out the synchronisation itself. It should be simple for JK to add eg. a marker at the beginning of each track, perhaps a second or more into the recording, which can be used to find the synchronisation. I don't like the idea of having a VST running while recording, at least not for my purposes.
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Hans Peter Augustesen - 05-14-2020
Yes, JamKazam intends to mix the original tracks together.
And it is correct that the function worked in the past.
Until 6 months ago, or so.
But it is also correct that the function is working again now.
In the last 6 hours 9 recordings have been finished by the server mixing.
See for yourself in VIEW THE FEED
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - Johannes - 05-26-2020
(05-14-2020, 01:05 PM)Hans Peter Augustesen Wrote: Yes, JamKazam intends to mix the original tracks together.
And it is correct that the function worked in the past.
Until 6 months ago, or so.
But it is also correct that the function is working again now.
In the last 6 hours 9 recordings have been finished by the server mixing.
See for yourself in VIEW THE FEED
Just to get back to my original question: I am not interested in any of the mixes JamKazam makes, I will mix myself, but I would like to know how JK knows how the files sync, because looking at the files I cannot find a way to do this other than by trial and error.
Alternatively, perhaps someone can think of a method to leave a sync mark in the files? Normally, when sound from one track bleeds into the other tracks, one could just click or clap to make an audible (and visible in the waveforms) sync mark. But because when recording in JK the tracks are completely separate in their audio content, I cannot think of an easy way to get a click or clap into all tracks simultaneously.
Or is this delay between the tracks a fixed value? (Again, I am not talking about the latency when playing together, which in our case is around 20ms. But the delay between the tracks is around 250ms, caused by the recording not starting (and stopping) at the same time. The recordings are also not the same length, the difference, however, is much larger than the delay, probably around double, but I don't think it is consistent.
Any tipps appreciated.
RE: Recorded Tracks not synchronised - SteveW - 05-26-2020
(05-26-2020, 06:55 AM)Johannes Wrote:(05-14-2020, 01:05 PM)Hans Peter Augustesen Wrote: Yes, JamKazam intends to mix the original tracks together.
And it is correct that the function worked in the past.
Until 6 months ago, or so.
But it is also correct that the function is working again now.
In the last 6 hours 9 recordings have been finished by the server mixing.
See for yourself in VIEW THE FEED
Just to get back to my original question: I am not interested in any of the mixes JamKazam makes, I will mix myself, but I would like to know how JK knows how the files sync, because looking at the files I cannot find a way to do this other than by trial and error.
Alternatively, perhaps someone can think of a method to leave a sync mark in the files? Normally, when sound from one track bleeds into the other tracks, one could just click or clap to make an audible (and visible in the waveforms) sync mark. But because when recording in JK the tracks are completely separate in their audio content, I cannot think of an easy way to get a click or clap into all tracks simultaneously.
Or is this delay between the tracks a fixed value? (Again, I am not talking about the latency when playing together, which in our case is around 20ms. But the delay between the tracks is around 250ms, caused by the recording not starting (and stopping) at the same time. The recordings are also not the same length, the difference, however, is much larger than the delay, probably around double, but I don't think it is consistent.
Any tipps appreciated.
Maybe something as simple as starting each recording by getting a band member to count 1, 2, 3, then everyone plays a single note on their instrument, or claps their hands if they are using a vocal mic. It should be fairly easy to line up these single instrument hits and hand claps in a DAW so that at least the start of the tracks were all lined up (just like using a clapper board).
If there is significant drift in the tracks, this could be repeated before each song.