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+--- Thread: Distortion Problem (/showthread.php?tid=978)
Distortion Problem - Alan Murphy - 05-24-2020
Hi,
The distortion problem we have is as follows:
My friend has keyboard and I have guitar - only us in a session which I have started
Both of us are using headphones
I can hear myself and my friend - no distortion
He can hear me - no distortion, but hears himself with distortion
It seems like a level problem, but where is the problem ?
No visible sign of clipping into the red
My thoughts are - My signal is going to the server, as is his signal
I get both back which is all ok
He gets both back as well but his keyboard is distorted - How can this be when the server had his undistorted signal to send to me ?
He normally listens to youtube through his headphones and has no problem, so his output amp and headphones are probably ok
Any ideas,
Many thanks,
Alan..
RE: Distortion Problem - Hans Peter Augustesen - 05-24-2020
First of all:
No audio (or video) "signal is going to the server".
It is going `directly` from person to person. Not through the server(s).
It is so called peer-to-peer. P2P or p2p
RE: Distortion Problem - Alan Murphy - 05-25-2020
(05-24-2020, 11:27 PM)Hans Peter Augustesen Wrote: First of all:Hi Hans,
No audio (or video) "signal is going to the server".
It is going `directly` from person to person. Not through the server(s).
It is so called peer-to-peer. P2P or p2p
So as my friends sound is coming to me without any distortion, is he therefore hearing his own distorted sound locally on his own pc without being internet transmitted at all ?
Many thanks,
Alan..
RE: Distortion Problem - Alan Murphy - 05-25-2020
Hi,
With my new p2p understanding, what is the signal flow:
1. Is my friends local keyboard signal going into the JK application and JK is outputing my received signal mixed with his local signal to his headphones ?
2. Is windows doing the mixing of the two signals and my friends keyboard signal he hears in his headphones does not go near JK ?
3. Some other signal flow path ?
If it is option 1 - Then does the keyboard signal get delayed in any way by the application, or is it assumed to be fast enough ? (Sync is not actually a problem)
With an understanding of my friends signal path from keyboard to HIS headphones it will help me work out from where the distortion is coming.
Many thanks,
Alan..
RE: Distortion Problem - GDJ - 05-25-2020
I’m not a Windows person, but I'll take a stab at this.
My starting question is, when he hears himself with Distortion, is it loud, or the volume is faint but distorted?
You are correct, JK is brokering the Audio from the interface. To isolate this, quit JK, and run another piece of software (DAW), to see if monitoring signal is clean, back to the headphones. If it's distorted, then It’s likely Audio Interface related; setting perhaps.
In JK
Need to be in a Session for the following.
On the Mac (not sure what win keys are), there’s the power mixer $ft control m keys. There are additional channel strip settings for each Input device configured in JK based on how the Audio Device Inputs and ADDED AUDIO TRACKS. The defaults are good enough to start with but you want your friend to click around on the Comp checkbox and toggle some things there.
Additionally, in the session there is the Volume button. This is for his monitoring only. Have him check the slider there too. I know this sounds too obvious, make sure he doesn't have any mute button checked. I realize this does not make sense, but ....
That’s all I have for now.
RE: Distortion Problem - Alan Murphy - 05-25-2020
Hi GDJ
My friend is elderly and not very computer savvy (but a great keyboard player) so I am doing this all at the end of a phone.
As I understand the volumes they are as follows:
Windows Mic input volume is set very low (6) and his keyboard output is set low (1) so the mic input does not overload and his volume to me as seen in the other live tracks icon is not in the red (i.e. if he put his keyboard volume up to say 3 - then I would get distortion)
1. With an undistorted signal from him, then I can increase or decrease his volume in my mix using the fader on the loudspeaker of other live tracks.
2. I can change my guitar volume in my mix using the fader on the loudspeaker of my live tracks
3. I can change the final headphone volume by changing the fader when I click the VOLUME button
My friend knows about the three volumes listed above and he assures me none of the signals are in the red
My friend can use option 2 or 3 to reduce his keyboard level in his headphones, but there is always distortion no matter what the levels are set to
many thanks,
alan..
RE: Distortion Problem - Jackd - 05-25-2020
(05-25-2020, 08:36 PM)Alan Murphy Wrote: Hi GDJ
My friend is elderly and not very computer savvy (but a great keyboard player) so I am doing this all at the end of a phone.
As I understand the volumes they are as follows:
Windows Mic input volume is set very low (6) and his keyboard output is set low (1) so the mic input does not overload and his volume to me as seen in the other live tracks icon is not in the red (i.e. if he put his keyboard volume up to say 3 - then I would get distortion)
1. With an undistorted signal from him, then I can increase or decrease his volume in my mix using the fader on the loudspeaker of other live tracks.
2. I can change my guitar volume in my mix using the fader on the loudspeaker of my live tracks
3. I can change the final headphone volume by changing the fader when I click the VOLUME button
My friend knows about the three volumes listed above and he assures me none of the signals are in the red
My friend can use option 2 or 3 to reduce his keyboard level in his headphones, but there is always distortion no matter what the levels are set to
many thanks,
alan..
Don't know if this is relevant, but when I first did some tests the sound in my headphones was distorted. Did some searching on the forums and saw a suggestion to reduce the buffer size in my interface software. I put it down to 24 samples and that stopped the distortion.
RE: Distortion Problem - GDJ - 05-25-2020
Alan,
Thanks for mentioning he is elderly - i get it.
Forget your explaining your settings and how you hear him, for now. Instead, the focus should be on what he is reporting from his own monitoring perspective. He is monitoring distortion at his end, while you are not. This was clear in the initial post. Generally speaking it sounds like he's overloading his input with the keyboard
Do we know what Interface he is using, keyboard, and how it's connected? Is he using Headphones?
It sounds like he has the keyboard input connected to one of the Mic inputs of the Audio Interface which is a high impedance pre-amped input for Microphone. Thus, keeping the keyboard levels at a minimum. A mic would not have this issue since the inputs are compatible with the input impedance, thus no distortion. Since Keyboard has a built in pre amp it easy to overload the input and even at a minimum volume can result in distortion.
What interface is he using?
GDJ
RE: Distortion Problem - Alan Murphy - 05-26-2020
Hi GJD,
Unfortunately he is not using an interface, I believe that would likely fix the problem, but he wanted to try to do without one if possible to save a bit of money.
He does have a decent laptop and his latency is about 4mS from his internal sound card, he is going in the mic input from the headphone output of his keyboard. I realise mic input would typically be 10mV and mic output perhaps 600mV.
He is wearing headphones, I do agree the input must be overloaded as expected and for some other reason I seem to be able to hear him undistorted.
Really appreciate your help,
Best Regards
Alan..
RE: Distortion Problem - GDJ - 05-26-2020
Honest question. What are your thoughts. Is it worth it for you to gift him an low cost interface? I'm curios how he's plugging everything in to the laptop right now?