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+--- Thread: JamKazam transfers 2 Tracks from another player as a single non-manipulable stream (/showthread.php?tid=2200)
JamKazam transfers 2 Tracks from another player as a single non-manipulable stream - mheeley.gm@gmail.com - 05-20-2021
Whereas each of us can see our 2 tracks separately on our Audio Input and Personal Mix instruments, the other can only see one panel with the name of the first track where the 2 tracks have different names.
We can both see both of our own tracks in Personal Mix, and pan them and hear the effect of the panning. But for the other player's sound we hear that sound as combined with no control of the mix between the two.
Like others, we expected to be able to see two panels for other players like we can for ourselves, and adjust the balance between the other's tracks and use panning for their contributions.
However, this Support Solution asserts that JamKazam DOES just transfer 2 Tracks from a player as a single non-manipulable stream to the other players:
Adjusting Your Session Mix
Created by: David Wilson
Modified on: Mon, 16 Nov, 2020 at 6:24 AM
https://jamkazam.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/66000124834-adjusting-your-session-mix
So this means in your Personal Mix and across all the Pro Audio Mixer features, you can only adjust the balance between your own 2 channels in your ears. Everyone else gets their adjusted-own sound plus just level-adjustable combined tracks from everyone else. Good to make distinct parts of your own 2-track output but that’s all.
We have only recently been into the Pro Audio Mixer and there we get the distinct visibility of the 2 tracks for the other player but don’t get any extra control (can't balance them to our own taste, not introduce panning of their sound which we can then hear). I note the comment that was made against the earlier post about the Pro Audio Mixer having a parallel/alternate existence to Personal Mix, but I don’t believe there is any advantage to manipulating other players’ tracks.
We’re only interested in practicing with the best possible foldback of what’s happening (as on stage, manipulating your own and others’ sound is desirable). It seems that there’s nothing in JamKazam which allows other than basic level manipulation in the Personal Mix, although it initially seemed that rebalancing and re-panning individual tracks was possible. So I believe we now know to stop looking for this and just enjoying the excellent lag-free service which we’ve had recently.
The recent post on 01-13-2021 by @carvinae185@gmail.com raised the need for clarification on the operation of the Pro Audio Mixer, as did the guidance response from @GDJ, Volunteer Moderator. From the perspective of manipulating others’ sounds in your Personal Mix, we spent many hours trying to deduce what benefits if has for the headphone ‘foldback’ mix whilst practicing and came to the conclusion there are none specifically for this whereas it may benefit streaming, recording etc.
RE: JamKazam transfers 2 Tracks from another player as a single non-manipulable stream - Zlartibartfast - 05-21-2021
I think of it this way - the personal mixer function of Jamkazam is just a software substitute for the hardware mixer that I use(d) onstage. All of my instruments mixed to stereo, then fed to the main board (I play keys). So it is for all participants in the session. This keeps bandwidth requirements between players down to a minimum.
Now, there IS a way for a participant to present more than one stereo track to the session. You simply have to run multiple instances of Jamkazam concurrently. I suspect you would have to have one unique account for each instance. You'd also need a computer + interface per instance, each with unique UDP port number assignments, and the bandwidth needed (5mbs upload per computer recommended).
RE: JamKazam transfers 2 Tracks from another player as a single non-manipulable stream - mheeley.gm@gmail.com - 05-21-2021
Thanks very much Zlarti - can I call you Zlarti? :-)) - my problem is I can't get my or anyone else's stereo pair of tracks to not be mono'd on the way to others' Personal Mixes nor Monitor or Master nor Recording / Streaming Mixes. I may be missing something from what you've written about the stereo making it into the mixes.
Like you I mix my keys and send the stereo left and right to tracks 1 & 2, but the stereo which I was looking for others to have doesn't happen - always mono. Also I don't receive others' sounds in stereo but in mono.
I actually have 2 laptop setups and interfaces, but this is in order to run VSTs from a MIDI controller and to run in-practice DAW recordings for instant playback (on the best-latency sessions), etc.
One stereo/2 track send from each player making its way into everyone's Personal Mix and the streaming / master mixes would be ideal. (I realise the Personal/Master mix can be selected to listen to.)
However we're happy enough with the amazing lack of lag JamKazam achieves and wouldn't want to distract from that with frills! Just trying to locate what's available right now and use what of it we can use. We're more than prepared to work in mono with just some positioning flexibility for your own sounds in your Personal Mix, if that's the extent of what's provided.
The main reason for any interest in manipulating the tracks 1 & 2 / L & R is that I'm trying to fascinate others in the possibilities of IEMs powered from dual foldback mixes via Behringer P1s, and the ability to mix the 2 to their taste (e.g. 'more of me' situations), which I can lay on from the mixer in live gigs. And when this is the norm, to replicate this on JamKazam practice sessions so that practices are as close to live as possible in all respects.
RE: JamKazam transfers 2 Tracks from another player as a single non-manipulable stream - Zlartibartfast - 05-21-2021
You can call me just about anything that's acceptable in a public forum ;-}
I did not understand that you are only receiving a MONO input from your peers. That doesn't sound correct to me, as I'm always getting a stereo pair of channels in each participant's track. One of my jam partners plays guitar and sings - she has 2 inputs on her interface, and has each one setup monophonic. Therefor, even though I am getting a pair of stereo channels in the track I get from here, both of her inputs are mixed in the center and it sounds like mono to me. Another jam partner I know plays multiple instruments (like me), and they are all mixed in different spaces at his end, so I hear a stereo track from him.
For myself, when I play bass guitar it's mixed in the middle, my voice is off to the side, and my keyboards are panned in different places according to my whims. My partners tell me that they hear stereo, except my voice is always off to the side (I don't sing, just converse). So I know it's working correctly for me.
I don't know how you could provide "more of me" personal mixes inside of Jamkazam, but my singer friend keeps her direct monitoring on her interface enabled, so she is getting more of herself than anyone else, though sometimes it causes phasing in her ears due to the latency. It's OK, as she is the leader of most of our sessions, and It doesn't bother me. I typically have her track level higher up than anyone else's.
Side note - I just completed a test using 2 computer systems, each with separate UDP ranges and audio interfaces. I was able to login to Jamkazam twice using my account, setup a session on one computer, then join it on the other. So yeah - you can do it! you just need all the resources to support all of the computer(s) you want to run. In theory, I could have 4 systems running concurrently on my network. Probably not going to bother with proving that since it would take me a lot of time and space (which I don't have) plus I can't really play more than 2 instruments at the same time and even then it would probably suck ;-}