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Is a live session jam with video even possible? - Printable Version

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Is a live session jam with video even possible? - mportman - 02-21-2021

I'm on day 5 of setting up JK to work with my laptop (Windows 64 bit Intel i7) Presonus Audiobox 96 and Xfinity high speed ethernet connection. I am a pro-user/early adopter when it comes to tech such as this but after scouring the forums and YouTube videos I see that many recommend not using video if you really want to avoid latency problems.

So I want to ask whether JK is really just an audio-only jamming platform? Yes, I do see lots of examples of it being used with video but I also see many video latency issues being discussed in these forums and wonder if jams with video is even a real option and, if so, how. 

I haven't yet tried it out, and as soon as a friend of mine who is also setting up JK is ready we will be doing some test sessions, but I'm here to ask if it is even worth trying. I'm starting to think not.

Thanks,
 - Mark

RE: Is a live session jam with video even possible? - Zlartibartfast - 02-21-2021

Yes you can do it, but it's a strain on your overall system performance.

My experience is, once you have more than 4 people on video, connections get shaky or audio degrades. Most of my time on JK I'm in a duo, and we've not had problems with video until the last client update. With that one, my partner (running Windows) lost camera access (camera works in every other application). My Mac did not experience any loss of camera after the JK update from 2/9

RE: Is a live session jam with video even possible? - StuartR - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 06:05 PM)mportman Wrote: I'm on day 5 of setting up JK to work with my laptop (Windows 64 bit Intel i7) Presonus Audiobox 96 and Xfinity high speed ethernet connection. I am a pro-user/early adopter when it comes to tech such as this but after scouring the forums and YouTube videos I see that many recommend not using video if you really want to avoid latency problems.

So I want to ask whether JK is really just an audio-only jamming platform? Yes, I do see lots of examples of it being used with video but I also see many video latency issues being discussed in these forums and wonder if jams with video is even a real option and, if so, how. 

I haven't yet tried it out, and as soon as a friend of mine who is also setting up JK is ready we will be doing some test sessions, but I'm here to ask if it is even worth trying. I'm starting to think not.

Thanks,
 - Mark
Use of video during a JK session should be limited to pre and post play. Most routers aren't going to be able to prioritize your real-time audio packets ahead of your video unless you have an enabled QoS-based router. A lot of home routers don't have QOS and some that do don't work very well.

RE: Is a live session jam with video even possible? - mportman - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 09:09 PM)StuartR Wrote:
(02-21-2021, 06:05 PM)mportman Wrote: I'm on day 5 of setting up JK to work with my laptop (Windows 64 bit Intel i7) Presonus Audiobox 96 and Xfinity high speed ethernet connection. I am a pro-user/early adopter when it comes to tech such as this but after scouring the forums and YouTube videos I see that many recommend not using video if you really want to avoid latency problems.

So I want to ask whether JK is really just an audio-only jamming platform? Yes, I do see lots of examples of it being used with video but I also see many video latency issues being discussed in these forums and wonder if jams with video is even a real option and, if so, how. 

I haven't yet tried it out, and as soon as a friend of mine who is also setting up JK is ready we will be doing some test sessions, but I'm here to ask if it is even worth trying. I'm starting to think not.

Thanks,
 - Mark
Use of video during a JK session should be limited to pre and post play. Most routers aren't going to be able to prioritize your real-time audio packets ahead of your video unless you have an enabled QoS-based router. A lot of home routers don't have QOS and some that do don't work very well.

Thanks StuartR. So if I understand you correctly, video feed should only be used to communicate with others in my group before we play or after, but switch to audio only during the session.   I've never looked at QoS settings but I see my new Orbi RB50 mesh router does have it built in. There are no settings for QoS, it adjusts QoS internally when I run a Speed Test. 


RE: Is a live session jam with video even possible? - kempjef - 02-22-2021

I suggest you try Jitsi Meet or Discord for video. Mute audio, keep video. It does occupy a bit of your computer's CPU, but doesn't seem to greatly affect latency (unlike the JK video app). But: for absolute latency minimization, skip all video.

RE: Is a live session jam with video even possible? - mportman - 02-23-2021

(02-22-2021, 07:28 PM)kempjef Wrote: I suggest you try Jitsi Meet or Discord for video.  Mute audio, keep video.  It does occupy a bit of your computer's CPU, but doesn't seem to greatly affect latency (unlike the JK video app).  But:  for absolute latency minimization, skip all video.

Thanks for the recommendations.
Do you mean using these apps for video in parallel with JK for audio during a live session?

RE: Is a live session jam with video even possible? - kempjef - 02-23-2021

(02-23-2021, 01:03 AM)mportman Wrote:
(02-22-2021, 07:28 PM)kempjef Wrote: I suggest you try Jitsi Meet or Discord for video.  Mute audio, keep video.  It does occupy a bit of your computer's CPU, but doesn't seem to greatly affect latency (unlike the JK video app).  But:  for absolute latency minimization, skip all video.

Thanks for the recommendations.
Do you mean using these apps for video in parallel with JK for audio during a live session?
Yes, exactly.  And, if possible, run the video app on a separate machine so that processing on the JK machine isn't affected.

RE: Is a live session jam with video even possible? - DCairns - 05-03-2021

(02-23-2021, 01:25 PM)kempjef Wrote:
(02-23-2021, 01:03 AM)mportman Wrote:
(02-22-2021, 07:28 PM)kempjef Wrote: I suggest you try Jitsi Meet or Discord for video.  Mute audio, keep video.  It does occupy a bit of your computer's CPU, but doesn't seem to greatly affect latency (unlike the JK video app).  But:  for absolute latency minimization, skip all video.

Thanks for the recommendations.
Do you mean using these apps for video in parallel with JK for audio during a live session?
Yes, exactly.  And, if possible, run the video app on a separate machine so that processing on the JK machine isn't affected.
I would back this. We have 7 folks in 5 locations on a mix of Windows and Mac systems.  We use Jitsi to get the video in to a central system then form a composite using OBS which can be then be returned through a virtual camera via Jitsi. Also it is pumped with re-synced audio into Zoom where our audience is!   JK does an interesting attempt at interleaving the video with audio, but we couldn't get it to work with more than 4 connections. Not clear if this was CPU overload, but there was gradually increasing jitter queue impact and also the set of new(recently introduced) video system bugs which are a pain - just not robust.   We put the video(and Zoom) on a separate machine so there is a dedicated system for audio.