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+--- Thread: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed (/showthread.php?tid=290)
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Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - Rickeyjt - 04-09-2020
What weight does the audio interface vs the upload internet speed have on impacting on low latency? I see my download speed is 200mps but my upload speed 11mps.
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - pkatuin - 04-09-2020
Yes, that normal with internet. Normal households dont meed much uploadspeeds cause they dont upload much, no webservers etc, when using facebook or netflix it is the downloadspeed that matters the most. While using jamkazam you are using both lanes of the internet. You are downloading the audio from the jamkazam server and you are also uploading your audio to the webserver. Most people dont actually know what there speed is. In this case your download is 200 megabit per second (not byte) to get the download speed that you actually have (what download programs use) you have to divide it by it 8. So 200:8= 25 megabyte per second. Thats plenty enough for jamkazam you upload would be 11:8= 1.37 megabyte persecond. This could get critical. I hope you are following this so far. When you are uploading to kazam you are uploading at 320 kbs so that leaves one megabyte for the rest of the people in your house. When some of them is uploading a selfie to instagram of facebook you are screwed and probably get really poor audio quality to the server. Thats a little explanation in the internet.
Now why is there latency you are wondering i have 1.37 megabyte upload wich theoretical should be enough..
First point of latency on the internet is when your computer converts the audio for internet use this is not much but its there.
Then it travels from your computer to a datahub somewhere nearby. From there it gets send over great distances to the jamkazam server. Wich also adds delay because of the distance.
When the jamkazam server recieves your audio it will have to send your audio to all the people in your session, this takes time for the servers to calculate and then it gets send out.
Now it gets sound out of the server to a datahub nearby the person recieving the audio. Then it gets to the person it self. Their computer has to convert the internetdata to audiodata again.
All of this as you can see are a lot of processes that happens between you and the other person (their is a lot more happining but this are the basics) and that why there it the internet latency. And it will all depend on your connection and speed.
Now the audio..
When you send audio in to your microfoon this get converted to a electronic signal with travels down the wire to your audio interface. Your interface have to convert the signal from Analog to digital, explains the AD in AD/DA converter.
Then a lot of proceccing is going on and you can choice a lot of settings that will impact this process. For example bitrate/buffersize and samplerate (and much more)
Bitrate = number of bits used per second of audio
Samplerate = how many times a sound gets sampled per second
Buffersize = the amount of time allowed for your computer to process the audio of your sound card, or audio interface
All of these processes take time it starts with samplerate the higher the number the harder your interface has to work and will take more time but you also want decent quality so it needs to be high enough to get good audio but low enough to avoid big latency.
Then their is buffersize, this alows time for your interface to convert audio to digital. The higher the number the less stress there is on you computer but you get more latency the lower the number you get less latency but more stress on the interface and computer. Also here you have to find a balance in the numbers.
From you go to bitrate how much info do we send out per second of audio. The standerd for jamkazam is 320kbps wich is doable on most computers these days. But all of this processing will add delay on your audio.
For example. I working in my studio and the bigger the project gets the more buffersize i need to orocess all the plugins and audio streams in the process. If i would plugin a guitar with a lot of plugin even in my studio i can get a small delay cause of the buffersize. I need more time for the computer to work thru all the audio so higher buffersize=more delay. And im not using somekind of best buy audio interface. This ofcours also works for the peiple in your session where the audio goes thru the same process
With recievind the audio the process is reversed. Digital get converted to analog and it will play from your speakers.
So as you can see its not whats is most important to avoid delay in jamkazam. Both of them are important and you cannot do one without the other. I know its a lot of tech talk here but this is the basic explanation about audio and internet delay. But the delay is so low its shown in milliseconds and not second.
Here is my setup
Mac pro 3.1 2008
Avid digidesign 192 interface 44.1/64buffersize/320kbps
50/50 mbit internetconnection (fiberoptic)
My interface latency is 2.9 the lowest i’ve seen on jamkazam. (The interfaces claming to have zero latency is bull. There is always latency.)
My internet latency with my friend from my home town is only 6ms
This adds up in a total latency for my in8.9 ms.
So here is your answer whether interface latency weight more then internet of viceversa. No both have to be good and both are important.
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - Rickeyjt - 04-09-2020
Thanks for all the detailed explanations. My steinberg u22 is not cooperating with jamkazam much. The hardware scan does recognize the u22. However, many error screens I do not know where to fix. The u22 works on my dell win10 notebook fine. These are all my jamkazam error messages.
*System in balanced mode, switch to high performance
*Wifi not recommended (my wifi is 200 up 11 down)
*Your output device default sample 44100 different than input 48000
*Your output device default sample 44100 different than input 96000
*Your output device default sample 44100 different than input 88200
*No compatible samplerate 32000 found on audio device
*Critical unable to open output device
I just bought a Zoom u44 audio interface and have not test connecting that yet.
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - pkatuin - 04-09-2020
Well first off, dont use wifi... get an ehternet cable straight to your mod. This will make a lot of difference for the latency in you internet connection since Wifi is not stable enough for this.
The other errors are related to your audio interface. It has a mismatch of samplerates. If you open the yama steinberg Usb driver window you can change the samplerate there. Also you can change here you buffersize. If you dont have this driver try to open you Asio driver. Here are also options to change your samplerate and buffer size. Make sure everything is set to 44.1khz. Reopen jamkazam en try entering new audiohardware. If you still have problems let me know.
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - Hans Peter Augustesen - 04-09-2020
"You are downloading the audio from the jamkazam server and you are also uploading your audio to the webserver."
The audio (and video) is certainly not downloaded from the Jamkazam server. And nor are the audio (and video) uploaded to the server.
It is so called peer-to-peer - all audio and video traffic goes directly from person to person, not through the server
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - pkatuin - 04-09-2020
(04-09-2020, 03:59 PM)Hans Peter Augustesen Wrote: "You are downloading the audio from the jamkazam server and you are also uploading your audio to the webserver."
The audio (and video) is certainly not downloaded from the Jamkazam server. And nor are the audio (and video) uploaded to the server.
It is so called peer-to-peer - all audio and video traffic goes directly from person to person, not through the server
My bet, sorry for the miss information a about server usage from jamkazam. Didnt know it was p2p but then in that cause your computer becomes the local server and all the connections and server processing is still happening and them send out to a datahub.
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - Hans Peter Augustesen - 04-09-2020
I am not arguing against the rest of what you wrote
Actually I have not read it all.
But it seems very interesting and enlightening - so ...
P2P - that I will remember
- or p2p, whatever
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - pkatuin - 04-09-2020
(04-09-2020, 05:14 PM)Hans Peter Augustesen Wrote: I am not arguing against the rest of what you wrote
Actually I have not read it all.
But it seems very interesting and enlightening - so ...
P2P - that I will remember
- or p2p, whatever
I honestly had no idea it is a p2p system. Basicly your pc becomes client and server ant once 👍🏼 But still the server process need to happen to send and recieve the audio.
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - Scott_Graham - 04-09-2020
Does anyone have any insight how that works when there are more than two people playing? I'm personally glad to hear its peer to peer, but unclear how data gets distributed in the three or more players case.
RE: Latency - Interface vs Upload Speed - pkatuin - 04-09-2020
(04-09-2020, 07:20 PM)Scott_Graham Wrote: Does anyone have any insight how that works when there are more than two people playing? I'm personally glad to hear its peer to peer, but unclear how data gets distributed in the three or more players case.
You play and the signal gets send out to everybody in the session and you recieve audio from everybody in the session.
Zie link : https://images.app.goo.gl/R3ZYwtFoqHp9ApZT9